[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: I uninstalled OpenMediaVault (because totally overkill for me) and replaced it with borgbackup and rsyncq



On Fri, 2023-09-01 at 23:15 +0200, Linux-Fan wrote:
> Default User writes:
> 
> > On Fri, 2023-09-01 at 07:25 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > Jason writes:
> > > > Or how does your backup look like?
> 
> See https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/11/msg00073.html
> and https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/11/msg00420.html
> 
> > > Just rsync.
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry, I just couldn't resist chiming in here.
> > 
> > I have never used OpenMediaVault.
> > 
> > I HAVE used a number of other backup methodologies, including
> > Borgbackup, for which I had high hopes, but was highly
> > disappointed.
> 
> Would you care to share in what regards BorgBackup failed you?
> 
> I am currently using `bupstash` (not in Debian unfortunatly) and
> `jmbb`  
> (which I wrote for myself in 2013) in parallel and am considering
> switching  
> to `bupstash` which provides just about all features that I need.
> 
> Here are my notes on these programs:
>  * https://masysma.net/37/backup_tests_borg_bupstash_kopia.xhtml
>  * https://masysma.net/32/jmbb.xhtml
> 
> And also the Bupstash home page:
>  * https://bupstash.io/
> 
> IMHO borg is about the best backup program that you can get from the
> Debian  
> repositories (if you need any of the modern features that is). The
> only  
> issue I really had with it is that it was too slow for my use cases.
> 
> > In the end, I currently have settled upon using rsnapshot to back
> > up my
> > single-machine, single-user setup to external external usb hard
> > drive
> > A, which is then copied to external usb hard drive B, using rsync. 
> > If
> > you can do rsync, you can do rsnapshot.  
> > 
> > It's easy, especially when it comes to restoring, verifying, and
> > impromptu access to data, to use random stuff, or even to just
> > "check
> > on" your data occasionally, to reassure yourself that it is still
> > there.
> > 
> > Yes, it does require considerable space (no data de-duplication),
> > and
> > the rsync of the backup drives does take considerable time.  But to
> > me,
> > it is worth it, to avoid the methodological equivalent of "vendor
> > lock-
> > in".
> 
> Yes, the “vendor lock-in” is really a thing especially when it comes
> to  
> restoring a backup but the fancy backup software just does not
> compile for  
> the platform or is not available for other reasons or you are stuck
> on a  
> Windows laptop without Admin permissions (wost case scenario?).
> 
> I mitigated this with `jmbb` by providing for a way to restore
> individual  
> files also using third-party utilities and I intend to mitigate this
> for  
> `bupstash` by writing my own restore program
> (work-in progress: https://masysma.net/32/maxbupst.xhtml)
> 
> > INB4:  No, I don't do online backups. If people or organizations
> > with
> > nose problems want my data they are going to have to make at least
> > a
> > little effort to get it. And yes, I do know the 1-2-3 backup
> > philosophy, which does seem like a good idea for many (most?)
> > users.
> 
> The problem I have with offline backups that it is an inconvenience
> to carry  
> around copies and that this means they are always more out of date
> than I  
> want them to be. Hence I rely on encryption to store backups on
> untrusted  
> storages.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Short but comprehensive resource on the subject (includes some
> advertising /  
> I am not affiliated / maybe this has outlived the product it
> advertises for?):
> http://www.taobackup.com/index.html
> 
> YMMV
> Linux-Fan
> 
> öö



1) I did read http://www.taobackup.com/index.html a while back.  It is
an ad, but funny and worth the read nevertheless.

2) I used borg for a while. Block-level de-duplication saved a ton of
space.  But . . . 

Per the borg documentation, I kept two separate (theoretically)
identical backup sets, as repository 1 and repository 2, on backup
drive A. Both repositories were daily backed up to backup drive B. 

Somehow, repository 1 on drive A got "messed up".  I don't remember the
details, and never determined why it happened.  

I had a copy of repository 1 on backup drive B, and two copies of
repository 2 on backup drive B, so, no problem. I will just copy
repository 1 on backup drive B to backup drive A.  Right? 

Wrong. I could not figure out how to make that work, perhaps in part
because of the way borg manages repositories by ID numbers, not by 
repository "names". 

So, I posted the problem to the borg mailing list.  And my jaw hit the
floor.  I was astounded that no one there was able to say that it is
even possible to do such a repository copy/restore, let alone how to do
so! 

The best advice was to just create a new repository and start a new
backup series, starting now and going forward.  For exmple, let's say
the original series started 2022-01-01. And the repository A "problem"
started 2023-01-01. If I just created a new repository A, starting with
a new series beginning with 2023-01-01, then I only have one copy of
the data from 2022, in repository B.  If repository B ever fails, I
have no data at all from 2022!  

This was of course just unacceptable to me. 

And I started thinking: 

The borg website bluntly says that they will keep changing borg,
without regard for backward compatibility.  (systemd, anyone?).  I have
heard that NASA has unusable data from the early days of the space
program.  The data is fine.  But can't be used because the hardware
and/or software to use it no longer exists. 

And, what is F/LOSS today can become closed and proprietary tomorrow,
and thus unintentionally, or even deliberately, you and your data are
trapped . . .  (Audacity? CentOS?). 

So even though borg seems to be the flavor of the month, I decided no
thanks. I think I'll just "Keep It Simple". 

Now if borg (or whatever) works for you, fine. Use it. This is just my
explanation of why I looked elsewhere. YMMV.



Reply to: