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debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2022 : Issue 992
Today's Topics:
Killing bluetooth dead [ dave@sherohman.org ]
Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change t [ Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> ]
Re: xfce4 tooltips [ fxkl47BF@protonmail.com ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ Ryan Nowakowski <tubaman@fattuba.co ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gm ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> ]
Re: Killing bluetooth dead [ Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.bu ]
Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change t [ "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einva ]
Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change t [ Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> ]
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:42:14 -0600
From: dave@sherohman.org
To: Debian-User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] 20221205144214.GN11644@sherohman.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] 20221205144214.GN11644@sherohman.org>
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I've got a headless server which is endlessly spamming its logs multiple
times per second with:
---
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Reached target Bluetooth.
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Reached target Bluetooth.
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937739.971268] usb 1-14: new full-speed USB device number 119 using xhci_hcd
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121486] usb 1-14: New USB device found, idVendor=8087, idProduct=0032, bcdDevice= 0.00
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121493] usb 1-14: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124798] Bluetooth: hci0: Reading Intel version information failed (-22)
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124813] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel Read version failed (-22)
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124972] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel reset sent to retry FW download
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.125348] usb 1-14: USB disconnect, device number 119
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Reached target Bluetooth.
Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
---
How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?
I do not need help making bluetooth load correctly. The machine does
not need or want bluetooth connectivity. If bluetooth were running
successfully, the first and last thing I would do with bluetooth would
be to disable it.
The question is how to make it stop attempting to load bluetooth in the
first place.
Based on some web searches, I have already tried:
- Checking the output of `dpkg --get-selections` for any package names
mentioning "blue", "tooth", or "bt" - there aren't any, so the obvious
solution of `apt-get remove --purge bluetooth` doesn't appear to be an
option
- `rmmod btusb` - this has no apparent effect, probably because
bluetooth.target loads the mod back in before I even have time to run
`lsmod` and see if it's still there
- `systemctl X bluetooth.target` for X in (stop, disable, mask) - this
has also had no apparent effect; even with the target stopped,
disabled, and masked, the system still keeps reaching it and trying to
read the Intel version information
- grepping for the text 'bluetooth.target' in all files in /etc/systemd/
and /usr/lib/systemd/ (so I could find out what 'wants
bluetooth.target') - no matches were found
--
Dave Sherohman
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 23:20:15 +0800
From: Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change to Debian?
Message-ID: <[🔎] b7a4c558-8da3-53c1-64dd-a18a80aa68d6@busby.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] b7a4c558-8da3-53c1-64dd-a18a80aa68d6@busby.net>
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On 05/12/2022 22:59, Linux-Fan wrote:
> Patrick Wiseman writes:
>
>> Hello, fellow Debian users:
>>
>> I've had Debian on my computers for a very long time (can't remember
>> exactly when but early 2000's for sure); and I've had Lenovo laptops
>> for ages too. I finally need to replace my main laptop (an at least
>> 10-year old ThinkPad), so I've bought an X1 from Lenovo, with Ubuntu
>> pre-installed (to be delivered in January).
>>
>> So, a question. Should I side-grade to Debian (and, if so, how easy
>> would it be to do that?)? Or will I be happy with Ubuntu (which is,
>> after all, a Debian derivative)?
>
> What is a side-grade in this context? I'd strongly advise against trying
> to replace the APT sources with Debian's and then trying to switch with an
> `apt-get dist-upgrade`. Instead, I'd suggest the following course of
> action:
>
> * Create an image backup of the installed Ubuntu such that it is restorable
> in case of warranty or hardware compatibility issues that may surface
> later. If you do this from a Debian Live system you can also get a first
> impression about how well Debian runs on the new hardware.
>
> * Install Debian stable replacing the existing Ubuntu.
> If it works fine, stop there. If not, try backports or even Testing to
> see if it is an issue regarding hardware being too new :)
>
> * If all fails, the image allows reverting to Ubuntu easily enough.
>
Why not simply, in that context, install Debian as a dual boot option,
so that the bootloader, on system boot, offers the user the options of
which of the two OS's to boot?
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 15:28:40 +0000
From: Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk>
To: Debian Users ML <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] 20221205152840.4c1f551e@earth.stargate.org.uk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] 20221205152840.4c1f551e@earth.stargate.org.uk>
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On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:42:14 -0600
dave@sherohman.org wrote:
Hello dave@sherohman.org,
> mentioning "blue", "tooth", or "bt" - there aren't any, so the obvious
what about 'blue*'?
Found bluedevil, bluez and bluezobexd here, where 'blue' alone found
nothing.
--=20
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
It's only bits of plastic, lines projected on the wall
Keep It Clean - The Vibrators
--Sig_/ShNAn_YdQOsGFO_O294DgVl
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Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2022 15:35:20 +0000
From: fxkl47BF@protonmail.com
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: xfce4 tooltips
Message-ID: <[🔎] qpson921-n7rn-196-561s-r8sqqn94242@cebgbaznvy.pbz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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On Mon, 5 Dec 2022, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 12:44:33 +0000
> fxkl47BF@protonmail.com wrote:
>
>> i upgraded to bullseye
>> xfce4 is 4.16
>> how do i get rid of tooltips
>> i can get rid of some but not all
>
> You didn't say how you got rid of some of the tooltips, so I'll guess
> here.
>
> This is after a bit of searching on the Internet. I have not
> experimented with any of this.
>
> XFCE is in the process of moving from GTK 2 to GTK 3. Also, some GTK
> programs outside of XFCE are GTK 2, others GTK 3. This situation will
> probably continue for years.
>
> The solution for GTK 2 is well known.
> https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/advanced I will guess that that is
> how you got rid of some of them.
>
> GTK 3, not so well known, but there are some things you can try.
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=3D232019
>
>
> --
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>
some like desktop and launcher have tooltip settings that can be disabled
most plugins have no settings and adding properties like disable-tooltips o=
r show-tooltips have no effect
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 09:51:20 -0600
From: David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] Y44TeKbhjWODYDTW@axis.corp>
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On Mon 05 Dec 2022 at 08:42:14 (-0600), dave@sherohman.org wrote:
> I've got a headless server which is endlessly spamming its logs multiple
> times per second with:
>
> ---
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937739.971268] usb 1-14: new full-speed USB device number 119 using xhci_hcd
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121486] usb 1-14: New USB device found, idVendor=8087, idProduct=0032, bcdDevice= 0.00
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121493] usb 1-14: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124798] Bluetooth: hci0: Reading Intel version information failed (-22)
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124813] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel Read version failed (-22)
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124972] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel reset sent to retry FW download
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.125348] usb 1-14: USB disconnect, device number 119
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> ---
>
> How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?
>
> I do not need help making bluetooth load correctly. The machine does
> not need or want bluetooth connectivity. If bluetooth were running
> successfully, the first and last thing I would do with bluetooth would
> be to disable it.
>
> The question is how to make it stop attempting to load bluetooth in the
> first place.
>
> Based on some web searches, I have already tried:
>
> - Checking the output of `dpkg --get-selections` for any package names
> mentioning "blue", "tooth", or "bt" - there aren't any, so the obvious
> solution of `apt-get remove --purge bluetooth` doesn't appear to be an
> option
>
> - `rmmod btusb` - this has no apparent effect, probably because
> bluetooth.target loads the mod back in before I even have time to run
> `lsmod` and see if it's still there
Then I would blacklist it. Create a blacklist-bluetooth.conf file in
/lib/modprobe.d/ and containing
blacklist btusb
or whichever modules (one per line), before removing it/them.
> - `systemctl X bluetooth.target` for X in (stop, disable, mask) - this
> has also had no apparent effect; even with the target stopped,
> disabled, and masked, the system still keeps reaching it and trying to
> read the Intel version information
>
> - grepping for the text 'bluetooth.target' in all files in /etc/systemd/
> and /usr/lib/systemd/ (so I could find out what 'wants
> bluetooth.target') - no matches were found
Cheers,
David.
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 09:36:23 -0600
From: Ryan Nowakowski <tubaman@fattuba.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc: dave@sherohman.org
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] 20221205153623.GB6206@fattuba.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] 20221205153623.GB6206@fattuba.com>
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On Mon, Dec 05, 2022 at 08:42:14AM -0600, dave@sherohman.org wrote:
> How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?
You might try blacklisting the bluetooth kernel module.
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 11:38:50 -0500
From: Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com>
To: Debian Users ML <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] CAO1P-kCNmSN63MVX8V_uWfQM5rtyVwP5N7wZ7DbWU1oEDkpL_A@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] CAO1P-kCNmSN63MVX8V_uWfQM5rtyVwP5N7wZ7DbWU1oEDkpL_A@mail.gmail.com>
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On 12/5/22, Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:42:14 -0600
> dave@sherohman.org wrote:
>
> Hello dave@sherohman.org,
>
>> mentioning "blue", "tooth", or "bt" - there aren't any, so the obvious
>
> what about 'blue*'?
>
> Found bluedevil, bluez and bluezobexd here, where 'blue' alone found
> nothing.
While looking for something else not too long ago, I tripped over
"apt-mark showinstall". LOVE IT! Very handy when other searches aren't
working because you're not sure of the package name. If you do know a
piece of the package name, you can...
$ apt-mark showinstall | grep <desired_keyword>
That's done with no asterisk (wild card).
Be forewarned, I just sent mine to a text file that ended up being
1,787 lines. Each line represents a single, separate package ready to
be pondered individually.
Cindy :)
--
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 11:57:19 -0500
From: Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
To: dave@sherohman.org, Debian-User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <CAH8yC8=Y7FEO=p3vmm-GLA7wX+6dTu6yhp5oMTuyP9cFafmVxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 10:19 AM <dave@sherohman.org> wrote:
>
> I've got a headless server which is endlessly spamming its logs multiple
> times per second with:
>
> ---
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937739.971268] usb 1-14: new full-speed USB device number 119 using xhci_hcd
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121486] usb 1-14: New USB device found, idVendor=8087, idProduct=0032, bcdDevice= 0.00
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121493] usb 1-14: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124798] Bluetooth: hci0: Reading Intel version information failed (-22)
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124813] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel Read version failed (-22)
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124972] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel reset sent to retry FW download
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.125348] usb 1-14: USB disconnect, device number 119
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> ---
>
> How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?
It may be easier to look in the BIOS/UEFI and see if there's a way to
disable Bluetooth and Wifi. Then you don't have to worry about drivers
loading for chips that are no longer powered on.
I often disable Bluetooth and Wifi for machines in my house that have
a full time wired connection. There's no need to turn on all the
radios when they are not used.
Jeff
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:32:15 -0500
From: Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com>
To: Debian User Mailing List <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Killing bluetooth dead
Message-ID: <[🔎] CAO6YxPyGoZF84N9RfFC2ZkxPN_4qiW2Fg2ApAp4HDxzjDg76Bg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[🔎] CAO6YxPyGoZF84N9RfFC2ZkxPN_4qiW2Fg2ApAp4HDxzjDg76Bg@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 12:05 PM Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 10:19 AM <dave@sherohman.org> wrote:
> >
> > I've got a headless server which is endlessly spamming its logs multipl=
e
> > times per second with:
> >
> > ---
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937739.971268] usb 1-14: new full-speed
> USB device number 119 using xhci_hcd
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121486] usb 1-14: New USB device
> found, idVendor=3D8087, idProduct=3D0032, bcdDevice=3D 0.00
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121493] usb 1-14: New USB device
> strings: Mfr=3D0, Product=3D0, SerialNumber=3D0
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124798] Bluetooth: hci0: Reading
> Intel version information failed (-22)
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124813] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel
> Read version failed (-22)
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124972] Bluetooth: hci0: Intel
> reset sent to retry FW download
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.125348] usb 1-14: USB disconnect=
,
> device number 119
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Reached target Bluetooth.
> > Dec 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Stopped target Bluetooth.
> > ---
> >
> > How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?
>
> It may be easier to look in the BIOS/UEFI and see if there's a way to
> disable Bluetooth and Wifi. Then you don't have to worry about drivers
> loading for chips that are no longer powered on.
>
> I often disable Bluetooth and Wifi for machines in my house that have
> a full time wired connection. There's no need to turn on all the
> radios when they are not used.
>
> Jeff
>
> If you do not want Bluetooth to run you can simply disable it in systemd.
sudo systemctl stop bluetooth.service
sudo systemctl disable bluetooth.service
--=20
=E2=A2=80=E2=A3=B4=E2=A0=BE=E2=A0=BB=E2=A2=B6=E2=A3=A6=E2=A0=80
=E2=A3=BE=E2=A0=81=E2=A2=A0=E2=A0=92=E2=A0=80=E2=A3=BF=E2=A1=81 Debian - Th=
e universal operating system
=E2=A2=BF=E2=A1=84=E2=A0=98=E2=A0=B7=E2=A0=9A=E2=A0=8B=E2=A0=80 https://www=
.debian.org/
=E2=A0=88=E2=A0=B3=E2=A3=84=E2=A0=80=E2=A0=80
--0000000000004f4dd605ef19bf79
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 12:05 PM Jeffr=
ey Walton <<a href="" href="mailto:noloader@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">noloader@gmail.com">noloader@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Mo=
n, Dec 5, 2022 at 10:19 AM <<a href="" href="mailto:dave@sherohman.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dave@sherohman.org" target=
=3D"_blank">dave@sherohman.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I've got a headless server which is endlessly spamming its logs mu=
ltiple<br>
> times per second with:<br>
><br>
> ---<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Reached target Bluetooth.<br=
>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Reached target Bluetooth.=
<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2093386]: Stopped target Bluetooth.=
<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2097]: Stopped target Bluetooth.<br=
>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937739.971268] usb 1-14: new full=
-speed USB device number 119 using xhci_hcd<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121486] usb 1-14: New USB =
device found, idVendor=3D8087, idProduct=3D0032, bcdDevice=3D 0.00<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.121493] usb 1-14: New USB =
device strings: Mfr=3D0, Product=3D0, SerialNumber=3D0<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124798] Bluetooth: hci0: R=
eading Intel version information failed (-22)<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124813] Bluetooth: hci0: I=
ntel Read version failed (-22)<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.124972] Bluetooth: hci0: I=
ntel reset sent to retry FW download<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar kernel: [2937740.125348] usb 1-14: USB disc=
onnect, device number 119<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Reached target Bluetooth.=
<br>
> Dec=C2=A0 5 15:22:33 fubar systemd[2046734]: Stopped target Bluetooth.=
<br>
> ---<br>
><br>
> How do I kill bluetooth dead and make this stop?<br>
<br>
It may be easier to look in the BIOS/UEFI and see if there's a way to<b=
r>
disable Bluetooth and Wifi. Then you don't have to worry about drivers<=
br>
loading for chips that are no longer powered on.<br>
<br>
I often disable Bluetooth and Wifi for machines in my house that have<br>
a full time wired connection. There's no need to turn on all the<br>
radios when they are not used.<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><div>If you do not want Bluetooth to run you can simply =
disable it in systemd.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:monospace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">sudo =C2=A0systemctl stop=
bluetooth.service</span><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:m=
onospace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></span></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">sudo =
=C2=A0systemctl disable bluetooth.service</span><br></span></div><div><span=
style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></spa=
n></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></span></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=E2=A2=
=80=E2=A3=B4=E2=A0=BE=E2=A0=BB=E2=A2=B6=E2=A3=A6=E2=A0=80</span><br style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=E2=A3=BE=E2=
=A0=81=E2=A2=A0=E2=A0=92=E2=A0=80=E2=A3=BF=E2=A1=81 Debian - The universal =
operating system</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(34,34,34)">=E2=A2=BF=E2=A1=84=E2=A0=98=E2=A0=B7=E2=A0=9A=E2=A0=8B=E2=
=A0=80=C2=A0</span><a href="" href="https://www.debian.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.debian.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">https://www.debian.org/</a>=
<br style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=E2=
=A0=88=E2=A0=B3=E2=A3=84=E2=A0=80=E2=A0=80</span><br></div></div></div>
--0000000000004f4dd605ef19bf79--
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 21:31:39 +0000
From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change to Debian?
Message-ID: <Y45jO/6oDORQVokf@einval.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
On Sun, Dec 04, 2022 at 09:51:49PM -0500, Patrick Wiseman wrote:
> Hello, fellow Debian users:
>
> I've had Debian on my computers for a very long time (can't remember
> exactly when but early 2000's for sure); and I've had Lenovo laptops for
> ages too. I finally need to replace my main laptop (an at least 10-year old
> ThinkPad), so I've bought an X1 from Lenovo, with Ubuntu pre-installed (to
> be delivered in January).
>
If you know which chipsets are in it, either should work.
I'd hope the Ubuntu supplied was the latest LTS - so 22.04.
If it isn't, and you'd have to upgrade from 20.04, then you lose nothing
by installing Debian right away, I think.
> So, a question. Should I side-grade to Debian (and, if so, how easy would
> it be to do that?)? Or will I be happy with Ubuntu (which is, after all, a
> Debian derivative)?
>
I think I agree with others who suggest dual booting at minimum.
It's a choice but Ubuntu and Debian have diverged - most of what
you know from Debian will still apply but there are small differences.
> I'm very familiar and comfortable with Debian (was happy with 'testing' for
> a long time, but have lately reverted to 'stable'). And, although I'm a
> rare participant on this list, I enjoy the lurk and would presumably need
> to go elsewhere if I had questions about my Ubuntu experience.
>
Ubuntu tends to live in forums, I think. There's also the whole vexed
question of whether you want some packages as snaps from Ubuntu.
> Thoughts will be welcome.
>
> Patrick
With every good wish, as ever,
Andy Cater
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 17:04:52 -0500
From: Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
To: Patrick Wiseman <pwiseman@gmail.com>
Cc: Debian User Lists <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Getting PC with Ubuntu; change to Debian?
Message-ID: <[🔎] CAH8yC8nq0dVaChFTPk8xffEOG+Q7OdxzgrhRquL6Ntvr9pZEzg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 9:52 PM Patrick Wiseman <pwiseman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ... And, although I'm a rare participant on this list, I enjoy the lurk and would presumably need to go elsewhere if I had questions about my Ubuntu experience.
Ubuntu-users (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users)
is a fairly active list. You will see some of us there. There's a lot
of overlap with Debian-users since Ubuntu is derived from Debian.
Jeff