Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500
David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
>
> > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great
> > loss to Linux and its philosophy if true. But that looks to be the
> > direction Debian is headed.
> >
> > Once I suggested on this list when systemd first debuted with Jessie
> > about choosing an init at install time as an option. It was not well
> > received. Many said it couldn't be done or was impractical. My reply
> > was, if you can change inits AFTER the install completes, why not
> > BEFORE.
>
> I think it's beneficial to keep the d-i as simple as possible.
> Once you've installed the system, all the tools are now available
> for changing the init system to whichever one you choose. Adding
> that to the d-i just bloats it (for everyone) without any
> *essential* benefit to anyone.
The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or
desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and
can be installed after the main install has completed. I know. I used
to do it back in the day. I still do to a certain extent even today.
But now those choices are an integral part of the install. So, why not
init? Can't even spare a few hundred K? Ridiculous irrantionale. We're
talking CD/DVDs not floppies.
As far as what constitutes "essential": Shouldn't the user decide
that? Or, at least, have a say so? What has happened to the basic
philosophy of good business: Satisfy the customer?
I'm not against systemd, per se, just against having it forced on me
by way of dependencies. I don't think the init should ever be a
dependency. Of anything. It's too basic to the system.
> > The thread died of apathy shortly thereafter with no resolution.
>
> Perhaps because you didn't supply any patches for switching to
> even one other init system (within the d-i, or as a post-installation
> script).
Didn't need scripts. Debian already had the ability to switch to
sysvinit (probably because so many objected to systemd) by simply
installing sysvinit-core. If it's that simple, why not make it part of
the install. Yes, you won't be able to use GNOME, but freedom of choice
comes with consequences as do all choices.
B
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