Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)
On Sun 02 Jun 2019 at 22:23:25 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >
> > > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great
> > > loss to Linux and its philosophy if true. But that looks to be the
> > > direction Debian is headed.
> > >
> > > Once I suggested on this list when systemd first debuted with Jessie
> > > about choosing an init at install time as an option. It was not well
> > > received. Many said it couldn't be done or was impractical. My reply
> > > was, if you can change inits AFTER the install completes, why not
> > > BEFORE.
> >
> > I think it's beneficial to keep the d-i as simple as possible.
> > Once you've installed the system, all the tools are now available
> > for changing the init system to whichever one you choose. Adding
> > that to the d-i just bloats it (for everyone) without any
> > *essential* benefit to anyone.
>
> The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or
> desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and
> can be installed after the main install has completed. I know. I used
> to do it back in the day. I still do to a certain extent even today.
> But now those choices are an integral part of the install. So, why not
> init? Can't even spare a few hundred K? Ridiculous irrantionale. We're
> talking CD/DVDs not floppies.
I can't see any of those items in the d-i itself, with the exception
of laptop-detect (6162 bytes). They're all pulled in from Debian
mirror which doesn't cause bloat. Where I see varities of packages
that I don't use, they are essentials like fonts (for non-English
speakers) and strange (to me) partition handlers. Oh, and lilo makes
an appearance (~400K) as well as grub.
> As far as what constitutes "essential": Shouldn't the user decide
> that? Or, at least, have a say so? What has happened to the basic
> philosophy of good business: Satisfy the customer?
"Essential" is what you need to install a system that works (and
can boot itself up and initialise itself) and has the functionality
for you to be able to change init system (and anything else) if
you want to. That's my reading.
Cheers,
David.
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