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Re: Beginning of the End for Wheezy [sigh!]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, Michael Milliman wrote:

> On 04/17/2016 06:59 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, Michael Milliman wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 04/16/2016 07:52 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >>>>>> choice of inits as a standard option during installs on future
> >>>>>> releases, but I very much doubt it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> B
> >>>>>>
> >> I use Linux Mint on one of my machines.  It is init based, not
> >> systemd, and has Debian and Ubuntu as it's underpinnings.  All of
> >> the familiar things work great (apt, and all other packages I have
> >> used under straight Debian).  I think you might like that
> >> distribution as well. You can check out their home page at
> >> https://www.linuxmint.com.  I still have Debian running on my
> >> server system (Jessie with systemd), but I really like the Linux
> >> Mint system with init as well.  I've never really liked systemd,
> >> though I must admit it does work and do the job -- I just like the
> >> simplicity of the init system better.  Admittedly, I may well be
> >> undereducated on systemd resulting in my prejudice.
> > I'm evaluating a standard install of Mint (XFCE) running in
> > VirtualBox. No problems.  And right, it uses Upstart as the init,
> > but still has systemd files everywhere.  For dependency issues, I'm
> > sure.  However, I've yet to check if I can do a minimal terminal
> > install, and build off it with just X, a window manager, and a
> > panel.  I like my system kept small and light -- no extraneous crap
> > like you get and never use, and can't uninstall due to dependencies
> > of the desktop environment.
> >
> > My objection to systemd is philosophical:  It's contrary to the Unix
> > credo of simplicity, an OS busybody as it were.
> >
> > B
> >
> Yes, Linux does seem to be getting away from some of its original 
> philosophy in general.  We are seeing many more do-everything types
> of programs rather than the one program one job type of thing. Linux
> used to be keep it simple, and have one program do one single job
> very well, and then combine those programs to get the end result that
> you wanted. Not so much any more. Nevertheless, IMHO Linux is far
> superior to the other options available, and Debian for all of the
> criticism I've seen about it, is one of the very best distributions,
> systemd not withstanding.

To most, complex solutions for simple problems is considered
"progress." That's what is being "taught" these days, unfortunately.
KISS has always worked well for me.  But then I've always been a
defiant, question all, accept-nothing-without-proof boat rocker.  Not
enough of us around anymore these days.

Yes, Debian's development philosophy was the main reason I ultimately
chose it for my personal systems starting with Sarge on a Thinkpad
240X.  Other versions on other systems followed.  But now after the
systemd ballyhoo, I'm searching for a replacement.  And I don't care how
well systemd works or how stable it is. It does more than an init system
should.  And having it (or even part of it) as a basic system
dependency? Ridiculous.


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