Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
Am Mittwoch, 3. Dezember 2014, 12:39:26 schrieb Laurent Bigonville:
> Le Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:18:36 +0100,
>
> Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> a écrit :
> > Am Mittwoch, 3. Dezember 2014, 08:35:00 schrieb Erwan David:
> > > Le 02/12/2014 23:15, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> > > > Am Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2014, 18:47:38 schrieb Renaud OLGIATI:
> > > >> On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:22:13 -0700
> > > >>
> > > >> Aaron Toponce <aaron.toponce@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>> It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral
> > > >>>> about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it
> > > >>>> forced upon me this way.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> # apt-get install upstart
> > > >>> # apt-get install sysvinit-core
> > > >>> # apt-get install openrc
> > > >>> No one is forcing you to stick with systemd. The "fork" is just
> > > >>> silly.
> > > >>
> > > >> Another way to look at it is "forward planning for the release
> > > >> after Jessie, when systemd may well become compulsory..."
> > > >
> > > > Or going beyond what is offered in Debian… like making GNOME
> > > > installable without having any systemd related package installed.
> > >
> > > The systemd package is just a small part of systemd. I'd like to
> > > remove systemd-logind and lbpam-systemd, sinc I have no clue at all
> > > that logind is better deisgned and programmed than resolved, which
> > > showed it was designed without any care for well known attacks.
> >
> > I explicetely wrote "any systemd related package".
> > [...]
> >
> > So you can still choose to what init system to use, but running
> > completely without any systemd related packages gives you a really
> > crippled system.
>
> As explained several times on this ML, depending against libsystemd0
> package doesn't mean anything about requiring systemd to be used as
> PID1 or not. Even Ian's GR was not taking the "I don't want any systemd
> package on my machine" use case into account you know.
Laurent, I wrote:
> > So you can still choose to what init system to use, but running
> > completely without any systemd related packages gives you a really
> > crippled system.
For me that states clearly that I am perfectly aware of that.
So I do not get why you repeat it and even complain that its already explained
several times on this ML as actually I think I did not leave a trace of doubt
of my awareness of that in the way I have written this.
> But if you have that special concern, you'll have to start recompiling
> the packages I'm afraid. Start with policykit and network-manager (and
> other package defining a dependency against libpam-systemd) to make
> them use ConsoleKit again, you would at least be able to remove the
> systemd package completely.
I just showed this.
I am not sure whether I have a concern about it.
But its a topic the devuan fork can extend upon whats currently available in
Debian. Whether it would be necessary to fork Debian for that, I don´t know.
That would depend on whether maintainers of the involved Debian packages would
accept patches which can make them (maybe optionally?) use ConsoleKit again. I
bet there may be a limit on what the maintainers of the official Debian packages
would accept there.
Of course, its also thinkable to provide those patches upstream, but I have
doubt that GNOME maintainers would accept them.
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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