Re: But there is a choice to not use systemd (war: Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community)
On 9/16/14, Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 16. September 2014, 08:46:36 schrieb Charlie:
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:48:02 +0200 Martin Steigerwald sent:
>> > I have mixed thoughts and feelings about systemd… but on the other
>> > hand I think discussing this further here… is… a waste of time – as
>> > it won´t change anything.
>>
>> I'm uncertain if that's correct. It certainly highlights some features
>> and flaws and peoples preferences and even though it's often
>> disparaged, imagine that some developers and programmers read posts on
>> this list relevant to their work.
>>
>> Anyway I think that the real subject is, as others have said, the
>> ability to choose.
>>
>> True freedom is having a choice, and as some have stated, the only
>> choice they see may be to move to another operating system if Debian
>> doesn't give them choice within it. But there is always choice.
>
> At the moment you *have* a choice. I think Debian one of the *few*
> distributions that let you have this choice. I bet you won´t have this
> choice
> easily with RHEL 7 or SLES 12 and probably even Fedora and openSUSE.
>
> Michael Biebl even just tested this choice, see:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/761389
>
> So once thing everyone who doesn´t want systemd on their systems can do is
> to
> *install* and *test* this alternative and report all bugs with it. That I
> bet
> would help a bunch more than discussing it in an extend that is surpasses
> anything I have ever seen before on this list.
>
> First *look* at things. Then *discuss* whats still needs to be discussed in
>
> your eyes then.
>
> I will use systemd for now. I will give it a chance despite my doubts. So
> far
> it fared pretty well. I still think 1,3 MB as PID 1 is ridicolous, but it
> works quite well for me. And that said, I do report bugs with systemd i.e.
> the
> solution I use at the moment.
I usually don't leave emails this long (meaning the above earlier
emails). I like to snip for brevity, but seems appropriate to leave
most attached. Every time this topic comes up, I.... *shudder* a
little because everyone gets so tense over it. I adore *harmony*, I
live for *harmony*. :)
In the last day or so I started following this topic again because it
remains ever so insistent in our inboxes. Whatever was said yesterday,
I almost responded then with part of what I'm "hearing" said above..
What I almost wrote was that I just.... hm. I just read something by
someone and complimented them on exactly what I'm "hearing" above.
The person had noticed a problem with something, a different project
with a notable upstream. The person went into *cognitively friendly*
detail about what they saw wrong with something, but they didn't stop
there. They took the additional time to present an alternative they
proposed would help take care of the problem.
What the person did was provide a digestible alternative for potential
peers to review. People can tear it apart verbally and/or build upon
it if they see value in what was presented..
That's what I imagine happening here, but I'm still "newbie" naive on
this particular process. By that I mean including both exactly what
systemd does and what it takes to push a viable alternative upstream,
not to mention getting an alternative accepted to boot.
In my naive little World, I picture those here who oppose and know how
to develop creating an alternative for folks to test. Powers that be
don't want to bring it on once that's all done? Aren't there
alternative places to present it from?
Yeah, I know... We start talking about pure and not pure.. I'm on my
way to trying to get to "pure" for purposes of contributing at that
level should that ever come to pass. That means I very much do
appreciate the point that having one's pet project being relegated to
[third party] repositories is nowhere near the ideal of achieving
Debian pure.. :)
Beyond that, I don't know. I'm one of those who was recently
aforementioned as having not spoken up yet. The reason I've not voiced
anything is because I am not this moment able to present an educated
opinion one way or the other on the whole deal.
I *DO*...... have an opinion about *_CHOICE_*.. About 99% of the time,
that opinion waltzes across the Net in ALL capital letters. There's
your sign......... ;)
Cindy :)
--
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with duct tape *
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