Re: Why focus on systemd?
<flame resistant underwear on>
Scott Ferguson wrote:
It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want.
The winner was "developers will work it out themselves" i.e. Debian won.
This whole bit about "developers are not being forced to do what they
don't want" and "developers will work it out themselves" is starting to
get on my nerves...
1. Debian "developers," for the most part, are not real developers in
any imaginable sense of the word -- they're packagers, which bears
precious little resemblance to software development. A few are serious
integrators - worrying about the overall integrity of Debian as a
system. A small few actually develop real code, unique to Debian -
notably the installer and apt (one less with the departure of Joey Hess
- a serious loss to the project). By and large, the real heavy lifting
for any distro is done by "real developers" all those kernel and
upstream folks that the Debian "Developers" package.
2. What "real developers" have to say:
"Upstream software vendors are fully dependent on downstream
distributions to package their stuff. It's the downstream distribution
that decides on schedules, packaging details, and how to handle support.
Often upstream vendors want much faster release cycles then the
downstream distributions follow."
(Lennart Poettering,
http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html)
"Chef to Debian: Please stop packaging us"
...
"I don't care about distros"
(http://www.slideshare.net/dberkholz/is-distributionlevel-package-management-obsolete)
3. And some good comments found while researching alternate packaging
systems:
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?75466-Guix-A-New-Package-Manager-amp-GNU-Distribution/page2
Thread: Guix: A New Package Manager & GNU Distribution
...
"This is a problem that should be solved by getting all the distro devs
in a room and not letting them out until they find a proper solution to
the problem."
...
"You'd have better luck herding cats."
...
"Cats are difficult felines sometimes, but they end learning how to live
at the same place. Those developers are like doing the same to a bunch
of religious fanaticals, they'll end killing each other.
But distribution developers are full of massively developed egos,
fanaticism and hidden commercial interests."
---
"Although not half as much as distro *fans*...."
<snip>
Please replace "we" with "I" - it gives the misleading impression you
speak for the vast majority when you only speak for yourself.
Note that opposition to *the choice* of using systemd 'probably'
constitutes less than 1% of users. Noise, repitition, and FUD doesn't:-
;increase that percentage
;give you credibility
;justify your bullying
and works against those that have genuine problems with systemd.
The appropriate, polite way to deal with things you don't like - is
speak *once* and state your case fully when you do. It's healthy to
express concerns - it's unhealthy, to all, when you flood forums with
them. The means justifies the ends - and bullying doesn't end well.
see above.
Miles Fidelman
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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