Le 05.11.2014 15:32, Miles Fidelman a écrit :
Specifically addressed to those of you who are responding to systemd, etc., by considering: - finding ways to make it easier to install/configure Debian without (or with minimal) systemd dependencies (certainly not in PID1) - migrating to another distro or platform - forking, deriving, or otherwise building a version of Debian that avoids systemd dependencies (or at least systemd in PID1 by default) - developing a new distro entirely [If you're happy with systemd, and not considering a change - please stay out of this discussion. If you object to the very nature of the discussion, hit your delete key and kill file this thread now.] Rather than have this topic keep showing up in various threads, with various uninformative names, what say I just pose the question directly. If you're unhappy with systemd (and it's associated ecosystem), and/or with the directions that it's taking Debian (and/or large portions of the Linux ecosystem):1. What are your issues, reasons for doing so - general and/or specific?2. What are you considering, evaluating, or otherwise thinking about? 3. What other options/initiatives are you aware of that you've discarded or otherwise are not considering, and why?
Hum. Yet another systemd's thread... hopefully it won't be another endless one.
Now, about your questions. 1)I doubt that systemd's developers knows where their puppet will end. I liked the idea of removing those weird shell scripts in /etc/init.d, but it does just too many things now. Really, I can't trust a project which does not have defined boundaries, especially when it's a key component of the system.
Also, since the decision was taken to make it the default, my systems running under Jessie were actually slower to boot, with a 30s delay in udev (and I did not changed the init system). A workaround was posted here some months ago, but I can't remember what it was. There is also the fact that now, when I use startx, I am no longer able to read what happen on the TTY where I've started startx. I guess, that it can be configured, but I don't understand why my system's behavior was changed by an update? I do not want a system where the behavior changes without a warning. Of course, it's testing, so things changes... but such a change should not be silent. Those things are facts, that maybe I am the only one to experiment. I do not know, and I do not mind.
Also, systemd's key feature to be event-based is useless to me. It probably makes it faster to start working on bloated systems (like, for example, systems which uses gnome or kde?) but I'm not a bloat user. So event-based daemons starts does changes nothing for me. And if I have to configure a real server, for production uses, I would tend to prefer to have something like one service per virtual machine. So, again, useless for me.
2)I want to take a real look to *BSD, especially netBSD. I have read some source code for various basic tools, and it is clear to my eyes: netBSD's code seems to be very clean.
FreeBSD seems to have some efforts in virtualisation too, with bhyve, but it's a type 2 hyperv, like virtualbox, so I'm not really sure about it. And I did not had the feeling that it's ready for production use from what I've read.
Also, I am curious about what will happen to uselessd and udev alternatives. They might allow to build interesting things.
Gentoo interests me a lot, also. I always had an eye on it, and even tried it. But failed. Next holidays, again? I know that it requires more maintenance than Debian, but I guess that it might not be that dramatic if it is only used as dom0 for xen, with some *BSD machines on it. Updating almost only kernel+xen should not be that time-consuming, right?
3)LFS. Because, for now, I do not have time and skills. Maybe on my next holidays?
Debian fork, or something like that, I do not remember the URI... but anyway, what I felt when I discovered the site, was that I was reading some childish declarations of doing the wheel better than what exists. We'll see if anything can spawn from that, but I've no faith there.
Sometimes, when I feel by far smarter than I really am, I think that it might be possible to improve dpkg, to do stuff like gentoo's package manager. And why not make it able to install softwares in ~? And why not make aptitude less bloated? While I would be there, I also could make all that stuff able to do more than one thing at a time and so improve the speed (at least, downloading, unpacking, and selecting packages could be made without blocking other tasks)... But then I wake up: I'm not smart enough to do that kind of things :)