Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

[Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>]

Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 05/11/14 14:00, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > Scott Ferguson wrote:
> > > On 05/11/14 12:28, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > > > Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> > > > > Le mardi, 4 novembre 2014, 17.13:05 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
> > > > > > Personally, the more this drags on, the more I'm convinced
> > > > > > that those of us who deploy and manage servers would really
> > > > > > benefit from a fork that retains the "flavor" and philosophy
> > > > > > of pre-systemd (and maybe pre-udev) Debian.
> > > As JS posted - it's likely that the majority of us sit somewhere
> > > in between the two extremes (Conservative Fundamentalists and
> > > Cutting Edge Advocates).
> > >
> > > > > Just. Do. It.
> > > > >
> > > > > It might even be successful! We'll be in a better world with a
> > > > > new distro out there satisfying needs not satisfied anymore by
> > > > > Debian!
> > > I'd have to agree with another poster - it's logistically more
> > > likely to succeed[*1] (and be less divisive) if it was a Debian
> > > derivative.
> > Isn't that a rather fine distinction?
> No.
>
> There's a *huge* difference between repackaging a small selection of
> packages, around a small number of architectures aimed at a small range
> of uses, and forking Debian.
>
> Could you expand on why, as you infer, that is not such a "fine
> distinction" - or are you "all froth and no beer"?

Enough with the insults and superior attitude (I'll match creds with you 
any day of the week).

> > How is a fork all that different than a derivative?
> Having proposed that it's "a fine distinction" it would be more
> appropriate to answer your own question and support your earlier claim -
> don't you think?

It's just that I've never heard a clear distinction between the two.  
Ubuntu is often described as "Debian-based" (e.g., at Wikipedia) - is it 
a "fork" or a "derivative?"  Fork has a clear meaning when talking about 
a piece of application code.  It's a lot less clear when we're talking 
systems that share a lot of underlying code (like a packaging system and 
the ability to pull from each others' repositories).

If you want to play definitional games, you tell me:
- same packaging system
- same upstreams
- possibly pull from the Debian repository - though it's pretty clear 
that we'd have to rejigger some, maybe a lot of dependencies information 
(at least re. package priorities)

Is that a fork or a derivative.  I don't know.  And I'm not sure it 
makes a difference.

What would make a difference would be an entirely new distro - different 
packaging system, different repo, different installer, and so forth.

> > > [*1] I haven't noticed anyone volunteering to do the work - as
> > > opposed to "organizing" others.
> > Well, that's the point of the discussion
> Clearly unrelated from that which you are responding to.
>
> >   - to suss out who's willing
> > and able to do the work.
> Are you willing to do any of the work?

Depends on who else is interested.  Given that you seem to have no 
interest other than throwing rocks - what's it to you?

Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra