Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

[lee <lee@yagibdah.de>]

Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> writes:

> But it also includes the utility 'logger'. In recent util-linux
> versions, 'logger' has gained a --journald flag that allows one to log
> to systemd's journal from the command line. This is the reason for the
> dependency on libsystemd0, so that 'logger' may write to the journal if
> requested. (By default, it will of course still log to syslog.)
>
> libsystemd0 is just 140 KiB and contains utility functions that might be
> useful for programs interfacing with systemd. It is absolutely harmless
> on systems with another init system, it will just tell the programs that
> systemd is not running.
>
> logger itself works just fine without systemd being PID1, just the
> --journald option will not work then.

So now we are supposed to install packages to have software with no
other function than to tell other software that software we don't have
installed on our system isn't running.

That's an abuse of dependencies, and I consider it a bug.  The package
management needs to take care of this itself.

>  - libsystemd0
>    systemd utility functions for use in software interfacing with
>    systemd. Does not require systemd to be PID1.

That shouldn't need to be installed when systemd isn't used.

> So basically, if you don't want systemd:
>
>  - you will not get around libsystemd0, but that is really, really
>    harmless (you also don't get grid of libselinux on jessie, but I
>    don't see anybody complaining there, because its functionality is
>    disabled by default, same with libsystemd0 if systemd is not PID1)

libselinux might then also fall under "abuse of dependencies".

>  - you will also not really get around udev on Debian, which is also
>    built from the systemd source package (because both are developed in
>    the same source tree), but that's independent of systemd itself
>
>  - if you don't need logind (i.e. no desktop environment that requires
>    it), then you will need nothing else
>
>  - if you need logind (i.e. using a desktop environment that requires
>    it), then you will also need to have the systemd package installed
>    (see above: does NOT make systemd PID1, but logind is contained in
>    there), and then you'll also want the systemd-shim if you don't want
>    systemd to be PID1

To sum it up:  No matter whether you use systemd or not, Debian depends
on it.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.