Re: There is no choice
Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> writes:
> Am Montag, 22. September 2014, 03:41:53 schrieb lee:
>> "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> > Jessie freezes no later than November 5th 2014. Allow folk who are trying
>> > to work on the distribution to work on it and not to have to intervene in
>> > this sort of discussion, please.
>>
>> Nobody prevents them from doing either or forces them to do anything.
>>
>> Once they have finished their work, Debian will have fallen under the
>> control of systemd. Then what will it take to undo the damage?
>
> Do you really think this decision is *set in stone*.
It doesn't look as if it's not.
> I have full trust in debian developer community that if need be, they could
> switch the init system once again. Especially as the others are still there in
> the archive. It would be work, but I think its certainly doable.
They might be able to make another init system the default. Do you
really think they will be able to prevent all the other software from
depending on a particular init system or parts of it?
> So I don´t think systemd upstream has the power to control Debian.
>
> Debian is a community project. No single upstream is going to control it.
Gimp already depends on (parts of) systemd in current stable. Do you
know a way to install gimp without installing (parts of) systemd? And
gimp is not the only thing with a dependency like this.
Supporting systemd and making systemd even the default init system opens
the door for it to increasingly take control of software totally
unrelated to an init system a bit wider. It seems that this door cannot
be closed anymore.
> While I still am not sure what to thing about systemd, there are things I like
> and things I dislike about it, I appreciate a discussion about it that goes
> beyond spreading FUD.
Experiencing that the devs of systemd refuse to fix their
misunderstanding of what "disabled" means, looking at the poor
documentation of systemd and having found it ridiculously troublesome to
accomplish a very simple task --- i. e. getting squid-2.7 started and
shut down correctly --- is enough for me to utterly dislike it.
Other issues have been pointed out in the discussion here and
otherwhere, and I'm finding them much worse.
--
Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power.
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