Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: > Yeah, I'm just the other side of ready to attempt testing. Soon. Very > soon. Life keeps getting in the way. Truthfully not sure what I've > got. The simple stuff, like determining version, eludes me often.. DID > miraculously just have uname come to mind so ended up with this > snippet from "uname -a": > > 3.8.0-34-generic #49~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Nov 13 18:05:00 UTC 2013 > > Ubuntu 12.04 LTS is stated under System Settings > Details. Between > that and what I've been finding on the Net last few days, I'm > officially confused as to what Debian release was used. Rumors hint > it's Wheezy but can't find fact. Even tried Wikipedia. ONE SINGLE > MENTION of Debian period within the entire content. Your confusion over what version of Debian you are running is understandable because you are NOT running Debian. You are running Ubuntu. That is why it is so hard to figure out what Debian you have on your machine. Because you have Ubuntu on your system instead of Debian. You have Ubuntu 12.04 LTS which is its own version separate and independent from Debian. Ubuntu and Debian are similar in many ways and different in many ways. Rather like Ford and Chevrolet are similar but different car vendors. > YES, am TRYING to switch to 100% Debian by name. The best way to switch from one vendor to the other is to backup all of your data and then install the other vendor from scratch. There really isn't an official method of cross installing from one to the other. There are some experts who have done this. But as the saying goes if you ask how then you don't yet have the skills to accomplish it and it is better to re-install the desired system. > That's sitting under chroot but other stuff keeps taking > priority. Brings me to the subject line change and a DISCLAIMER up > front: Apologies in advance if this turns out to just be noise. Am > sure I'm simply not yet understanding the whole debooststrap/chroot > process, but I keep getting this "feeling" about it based on my > experiences last couple weeks. :) > > What you all have going. I don't know the right terminology to use to > ask.. Let me try it this way. If you're suddenly having a lot of > compatibility problems, are you working out of a root hierarchy or > instead out of something "embedded" via debootstrap or a similar > alternative? For that matter, even if you're working out of a natural > root hierarchy, do you maybe have another release "harmlessly" > embedded, possibly even forgotten under something like /var/chroot? I will guess that 99.44% of all GNU/Linux users Debian, Ubuntu, or otherwise do not use chroots. Use of chroots is very useful! But chroots are a feature that most people would consider an advanced topic. Therefore most people are not using them. Of those that do use chroots they have all done special things to make use of them. And of course the entire reason for using chroots is to encapsulate what is in the chroot. Therefore generally nothing escapes from the chroot and bothers the system and the reverse of nothing in the system bothers the chroot. > Reason I'm asking is I had an ah-ha moment last week where I realized > my successfully debootstrapped release was actively pulling at least > part of live sessions into its subdirectories. A shared /home? Any other shared directories? > Couple days later just happened to open /etc/fstab and see entries > like /proc, /sys and /dev pointing to the chroot directory. Could you show us the lines you saw verbatim? It would be really unusual to see what you are describing. I can't guess at a package or process that would have done that. Other than a very buggy one! It depends upon what the chroot is being used for as to whether things need to be mounted in the chroot or not. Some applications are well behaved and need nothing. Others have tendrils and sticky fingers that reach deep into every orifice of the system and require many things to be mounted in chroot such as /proc, /dev, /dev/pts, /tmp, /home, /var, other things. It all depends on the application that you are running in the chroot. In chroots that I have created some applications need various things like /proc and therefore I will add a bind-mount of the things it needs into /etc/fstab so that it will mount at boot and always be present. But those are things that one must do manually. I am sure that if you did it manually you would have remembered doing it. I am not aware of anything that would do this automatically. However I am not aware of many things. That doesn't mean that something doesn't actually go out and do something like that automatically. > I recognize that as a debootstrap installation check point so I had > no problem seeing it. Instead am now starting to wonder how much > that might play into problems I've suddenly been having. What problems have you been having? > Whatever problem I was having couple weeks ago was echoed in various > ways on the Net and always with people saying, BUT I DID *NOT* DO > THAT!" It boiled down to something about inconsistently mixing package > versions incompatibly across stable, testing, etc, releases.. I fear that you might be criss-crossing packages between Ubuntu and Debian and that will very likely cause problems. Of course that has nothing to do with chroots. Running a Debian chroot on an Ubuntu system, or the reverse, is just fine. That is often what I do in order to obtain the functionality of one distro on the other distro. Don't take what I am saying as saying to not use a chroot. > Really got me to wondering about how much of the problems we're seeing > questioned on lists now MIGHT be somehow tied to the word "bootstrap" > and its derivatives *seeming* to appear more frequently across > listservs lately.. > > OR NOT. :) Huh? To what problems are you referring? > Before sending this, I just hit up the Net again. What I'm seeing is > really starting to make me wonder about this.. I wonder now if some > notable number of recent problems don't just boil down to some of us > debootstrap "newbies" not commanding the process optimally, maybe > including simply not understanding the true power and reach of what > we've undertaken... > > OR NOT. :D I worry that some problems we see are because people are mixing up different distros. And traditionally there have been many problems within a single distro when users mix up release track versions such as mixed pinning between oldstable, stable, testing, unstable. Bob
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