Re: Irony

[Paul E Condon <pecondon@mesanetworks.net>]

On 20140809_1647-0400, AW wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400
> Steve Litt <slitt@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> 
>  > Hi all,
>  > 
>  > Some of the reasons I switched my desktop from Ubuntu to Debian were:
>  > 
>  > 1) To do more config by editor and less by magical binary program.
>  > 
>  > 2) To get rid of gratuitous boot gunge (in this case Plymouth)
>  > 
>  > 3) To get closer to the Unix Philosophy
>  > 
>  > Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd.
>  > 
>  > Sometimes, you just have to laugh.
>  > 
>  > SteveT
> 
> A new thread... I chase this one, knowing full well that convincing anyone of
> anything is nearly impossible.
> 
> There remains only a few holdouts from the "major" distributions: Gentoo and
> Slackware. So, give 'em a go...
> 
> However, I've spent a significant time over the last few days relearning much
> of what I thought I knew about rsyslog, what I knew I didn't know about
> systemd, and musing about what the future may hold... And I gotta say, I might
> have agreed with you several months ago -- but I no longer do...
> 
> Systemd is going to take over, because it's - well - better than what existed
> in the past.  And that's also what open source is about -- a meritocracy.
> 
> I also learned that rsyslog, syslog-ng and company have had sql logging
> capability all along... silly me! I should just learn to look more thoroughly
> at what I have in front of me... and, I'm sure, if you take a good honest look
> at the whole of systemd and what the team is attempting, you'll come over to
> the dark-side as well... BTW, we have cookies.
> 
> --Andrew

Andrew, are your cookies virtuous (lo-cal) or virtual? ;)

Comments (opinion) supporting your position that SQL logging is silly.

It is my understanding that SQL is a query language that is designed
to query (and update) a *relational*database* that has been designed
according to design rules for which there is a vast how-to
literature. Usually the goal is a database about a business firm and
its customers, suppliers, employees, and stock holders. 

For SQL logging to be useful, it seems to me, there should be a
properly designed *relational*database* of the internal state of a
computer and its relationship to its users, and to the resources under
its control.

Are there such designs? Something that a sysadmin can buy, and/or
download, from a reliable source and install and get working with
minimal effort? Something that he can just do without management
thinking he is exceeding his job authority? I think not.

Therefore I conclude that SQL logging will not be used except in very
large, very stable organizations, and should not matter in the context
of Debian and its future. If it does happen in Debian, it will be just
another downloadable .deb package, not a major shift in the nature of
the Debian community or its relations with the rest of human society.

Who knows of an Entity-Relationship diagram for a POSIX system wherein
the updates of data meet the 'ACID' criteria? What will happen if a
logged transaction violates an integrity constraint that is required
by the data model? 


-- 
Paul E Condon           
pecondon@mesanetworks.net