Re: is it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?
2009/6/23 Jeff Soules <soules@gmail.com>:
>> I open this thread as a programmer, you can ignore my questions about
>> programming in the future, but you should not ignore my questions as a
>> debian user.
>
> Right now you are showing that you're a person who asks for advice,
> but does not listen to the response. People value their time and will
> not take the time to respond to someone like this, whether you're
> speaking as a programmer, a Debian user, an artist, or a fisherman.
> Don't waste people's time. Ever.
yes i'm asking for advice, and I'm very happy to get so many good
advices, and I'm trying to form a solution to include all the good
advices, I'm not wasting other's time, we are just discussing and
trying to figure out the best way.
>
> You talk about how different languages are just "different ways to do
> the same thing." Well... okay... but you're writing to this list in
> English. From your sig and your name you're obviously a native
> Chinese speaker. Aren't English and Chinese just "different ways to
> say the same thing?" If you don't understand them both well, you
> might think so. But some things are much easier to do in one language
> versus the other. "飄飄何所似， 天地一沙鷗" -- in English, is it 'just the same
> thing?' It's not that Chinese is just "better," there are plenty of
> things that are more natural in English than in Chinese. Just the
> same, if all you see in Perl is wrappers around C functions--if you
> think "none of them bring new concepts [or clarity or simplicity] to
> C/C++" -- then you don't understand Perl. And you need to. Without
> lots of different ways of thinking about problems, you're like a frog
> in a well, saying "look how small the sky is!"
A very good comparison -- human languages and programming languages.
Then why we must have an official world language - English? What's the
official language in the programming world? If you say you do not need
an official programming language, then you are saying "we do not need
English to be the world official language", I believe no one will
agree with you; if you say every programmer should learn many
languages, then you are saying "everyone should learn English,
Chinese, French....", oh, I believe everyone will hate you so much, I
guess you are also a chinese, you should know how suffering we chinese
have to learn English.
I value every good concept in every language, but please add that good
concept to my familiar language, not force me to learn a new one; or,
I can reference another language so that I can improve my language,
but please do not force me to use a new one. The way computers working
is simple, so there isn't any difficulties to implement a good concept
in one language to another.
The problem is, if everyone of us use a different language, we cannot
cooperate, so we must have an official language, and everyone learn
and use it from the start to end.
>
> I'm perhaps a "junior programmer" myself. I can and have used C and
> Pascal. I've taught Java. I'm working on projects with JavaScript
> and I use Perl and SQL regularly in my career. I don't know ENOUGH
> different ways to do the same thing! I say this because I've realized
> that different languages do different things much more easily than
> others, and ultimately it's about getting the job done.
but in my career life, I saw so much overlapping work done because
different languages, I used to be a web programmer, javascript, xslt,
C#, we programmed so many same functions with different languages.
It's painful, cann't you see it? It's beause we are on the wrong way!
>
> Quick storytime: Several years back, I was writing some XML format
> converters in Perl. There are wonderful pre-written Perl modules to
> parse and output XML. But I wanted to "learn more," so I insisted on
> doing it all myself. (Management wasn't watching me too closely.) It
> took me three times as long to write and the code wasn't flexible or
> maintainable... and honestly, I didn't learn anything worthwhile, but
> I wanted to "learn." Now, whenever I find myself doing this, I look
> back at that: do I *really* want to spend my time inventing inferior
> ways to parse XML? Is it so interesting to write string parsers?
> What am I learning? How much better it is just to learn the common
> tools! If I want to learn, I'm better off reading someone else's
> great code than writing my own bad code. It's not the "waste of time
> those scripts languages bring to us programmers" -- they exist to SAVE
> time. If you doubt it, challenge a perl programmer to a race
> sometime. There are problems for which it would be faster to *learn
> perl well enough to write a perl solution* than to write the solution
> in C.
I want to integrate perl into C/C++.
>
> You keep coming back to this argument that "I hope one day I will be
> able to take full control of my system, and modify [it] as i like."
> An admirable goal -- but what does it actually *mean*? What are you
> going to do with this system? You're going to give up most of the
> functionality of a good Linux distro so you can... mess around with
> the way your personal hardware handles filesystem journaling, or
> memory allocation, or something? That's really the most interesting
> problem you can think of solving with computers?
Yes, I myself won't be able to do all the work, but if there are many
people agree with me, and we work together to realize an only one
programming language system, that will be a bright future of our free
software world.
>
> You really need to rethink your priorities. A mature person would
> accept that when a solution has been endorsed by thousands of people
> over decades, there might be something worthwhile to it, even if it is
> unfamiliar at first. The majority isn't always right, but their ideas
> are at least worth considering.
no, I don't consider the number of people and the length of time a
situation exists, I just consider whether it's the right way to do
things.
thank you for the advice!
>
> Good luck.
>
> ~Jeff Soules
>
> 2009/6/22 明覺 <shi.minjue@gmail.com>:
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:18 PM, John Hasler<jhasler@debian.org> wrote:
>>> 明覺 writes:
>>>> yes, currently it's true, but I hope one day I will be able to take full
>>>> control of my system, and modify them as i like, if I have those other
>>>> language programmed softwares installed in my system, it will be hard to
>>>> maintain for me.
>>>
>>> If learning enough of another language to do maintainence is hard for you
>>> you aren't much of a programmer. Programming is not about knowing a
>>> language.
>> Yes, language is just a tool, so I want to keep my tool simple and
>> powerful, I do not want so many similar tools with the same functions.
>>> --
>>> John Hasler
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks)
>> Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl
>> 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅....于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。
>>
>>
>> --
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>>
>>
>
--
Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks)
Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl
初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅....于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。
Reply to: