Re: a dumb query? pls humor me

[Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>]

s. keeling wrote:

> Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>:
>>  s. keeling wrote:
>> 
>> > Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>:
>> >>  Steve Lamb wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > Paul Johnson wrote:
>> >> >> Totalitarianism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive, but
>> >> >> neither is any other economic and political model combination.
>> >> >> Correlation without causation.
>> >> > 
>> >> > They're not mutually exclusive because they are the same.  Personal
>> >> > liberty is economic liberty!  You can't have one without the other.
>> >> > Any political movement which curtails economic liberty is directly
>> >> > curtailing personal liberty.
>> >> 
>> >>  We'll see if you keep saying that next time you need an operation not
>> >>  covered by private health insurance.
>> > 
>> > Uh huh.  Move to Canada.  Need a hip replacemnt?  Six to eighteen
>> > months wait, tops.  Catscan?  A year and a half, assuming you don't
>> > 
>> > Socialism doesn't work for the guy on the street.
>> 
>>  The guy on the street doesn't need a hip replacement or a cat scan.  A
>>  guy
> 
> This is a ridiculous statement.  I've met a few who did.  All
> Canadians, regardless of their position in the scheme of things have
> two choices: accept what you're offered by those in control, or cross
> the border and pay for it and get it, for a price.  Here, paying more
> to get it is considered "two tiered healthcare", and "queue jumping."

At least Canadians have that option.  If you're American, whether or not you
can afford it, it's only available for a price.

> However, you can get it when you want it if you've paid for the privilege.

After working night shifts at a hospital for over two years and seeing
firsthand how American healthcare is handled on a day to day basis, I can
assure you that this just isn't the case.  I've seen ER lines go hours deep
for traumas at OHSU, both there as a patient and as an employee.  And OHSU
has a huge ER and a pretty good crew there.  Surgeries always get scheduled
based on medical need since staff and operating rooms are limited, that's
pretty much a universal concept.  It wouldn't surprise me at all to find
out Canada's queue jumpers are also queue jumping on us by paying more,
a-la payola.  We'll probably never know for sure, though, since it's not
possible to follow the money very far in private healthcare.

The bottom line is on both sides of the border there just isn't enough
doctors with the right specialties to go around, how it gets paid for
really doesn't change that.