Michael Pobega wrote:
I've been reading the last 30 or so posts on this thread with some interest. Tried going to newbiedoc site but it never responded when I tried to connect. I may have some interest in getting involved too. I'm not the most experienced, or knowledgable, Debian guy around but I can write, or edit, and I would like to get more involved in the Debian project.Andrew Sackville-West wrote:But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use Ubuntu.bleh. responsing anyway... I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update" their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users, especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of course, just work forever. [...]Referring to it as Sid seems like a good idea to me, but really no matter what it will be referred to as Unstable by the community; Which will probably just scare users away. The way I see it, is that the Debian mainsite shows that 3.1 Stable (Current) is the only "/workable/" release, and is very outdated. Testing (Which /apparently/ has bugs) is a bit more up to date, but not perfect. And Unstable will just break your system, but comes with the most updated programs!Maybe if Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.[...] how about "CuttingEdge" insteadof "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only?In reality, running Debian Sid at this point in time is almost as unstable as running Ubuntu Edgy 6.10; Hell, even running Ubuntu Feisty 7.04 is more unstable than using Sid.I really think the mainsite has too much of an outdated, old look to it. I think that is one of the main things that scares people away. I mean, compare for yourself:http://debian.org/ http://ubuntu.com/
I agree that the dated look of the debian.org site may have something to do with new user adoption. It kind of threw me when I first started using Debian 2-3 years ago. I looked at it and wondered why in a world of graphics it was text only. It made me think "old and outdated" and maybe even "not very professional" in reference to Debian itself. It's a rare marketing scheme that prefers to make the product it is marketing appear old, dated, and unexciting on first blush. I think the reason the site is that way is because it reflects, probably unconsciously, that Debian really is mostly about stability, usability--once it is set up, flexibility, and server and system administration. To me Debian has a "business-like" feel. Odd that it does considering its political philosophy, but that's sort of how I perceive it. I like that feel to it because it says stability, solidity, lots of strength under the hood. It's the total opposite of Windows and that is one of the reasons I really like it. I will take substance over style any day of the week.
I also sort of feel the same as some others have expressed on this thread about Ubuntu leaving them cold. It does me too. I've tried it a couple of times and I've always been left feeling that the OS was "dumbed down". Sort of like the feel I get from Windows. My first install was from a set of cd's made when woody was testing. Was it easy? Did I understand some of the questions? Absolutely not. Did I learn a bunch? You bet. That was what hooked me. I was fascinated. I was getting to look under the hood. I was getting to start to learn how the system worked. It was as far away from the disappointing experience of Windows as I could get. I really struggled that first 6 months but I rarely booted back into Windows once I had a working Debian install. Within a year my entire lab had been moved to Debian.
Could the installer be made easier for someone who is not very curious? I suppose so but I would absolutely hate seeing Debian go the way of Ubuntu. I'd probably move to Slackware, a *BSD, or Gentoo if that happened.