John C wrote:
Why? If you want it in your face, you can set that up. But if *you* choose to use Gnome, which is a desktop specifically designed to be easy and comfortable for new users, don't be surprised that the default behavior doesn't do that. There are many other choices you could make -- XFCE, Rox, Window Maker, FVWM, even Ratpoison fergossakes.jameson__debian@coost.com wrote:We in Linux heavily use the command-line. So, I was dismayed when my new Debian etch version displayed a Gnome interface WITHOUT ANY XTERM (or GNOME-TERMINAL or KONSOLE) and not even any immediate panel options for these terminals.Gnome's "Add to Panel" includes a trashcan and a file-manager just like Microsoft, but not one of Unix's foundations -- a text terminal. I eventually kludged a gnome-terminal icon onto the Gnome panel. Or I can Applications -> Accessories --> Terminal but this should not be the primary approach to command-line entries. Yes, once I have a gnome-terminal running, future logins re-deploy it,and that's actually an improvement to making inclusions in ~/.xsession (although Gnome drops some applications from later logins as Sun did10 years ago).THE XTERM (or its equivalent) SHOULD BE IN MY FACE THE VERY FIRST TIME I LOGIN, requiring at most a single obvious mouse click.
If you want the pretty Windows-like environment of Gnome, *and* you want your xterm in your face, it takes you all of 2 seconds to launch it, pin it so it is on every desktop, and forget it. You can even go in to that session setup thingy Gnome has and tell it to keep your xterm running at all times, so you don't have to worry about closing it accidentally!
If having to do this tedious procedure EVERY DARN TIME you install from scratch is bothering you, make a "gnome-advanced-desktop" package and help out other "power-users" like you.
Which distro are you using?? Debian "Retch"? Cuz man, I use Etch (with no "R"!) and it has *lots* of packages -- I can set up any desktop I want, and switch between 'em in a live session even. Want the xterm in your face?<sarcasm snipped>You're absolutely correct. The xterm should be "IN MY FACE" every time I log on. (it does on my box) Unfortunately the linux community is sliding down the "commercially" driven "one desktop fits all" slope, so that once all the desktops are basically the same, commercial developers will be able to write/sell programs that will play on all linux distros.
$ echo exec xterm > ~/.xsessionBoom. All xterm all the time. Who needs window managers?? Or try this one: ctrl-alt-F1
What I don't understand is why the FSF and Debian are both going down this same garden path.Is the goal to have linux users become just as brain dead as windows users?I've been running debian since "bo" and the days of Captain blue-eye, but it's becoming harder every day to keep a system running without using either Gnome or KDE ...
How's this? What can you not do now without Gnome or KDE?
IMHO they both suck.
Agreed! I like Window Maker + Rox. What's your flavour?
Name two. Seriously, I won't bet you can't but *I* can't, and I'd like to know.One of the greatest features of linux *was* that each individuals desktop was as different as that individual. The box looked, operated, and sounded the way that user wanted it too. Now it seems that individuality is out-of-style and every useful tool/program that is not part of gnome/kde is being pushed out-of-the-way or becoming "depreciated".
-Matthew