Re: OT: Politics [Was:Social Contract]
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:26:58AM -0500, Jacob S wrote:
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> On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:32:27 -0700
> Paul Johnson <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> > On Friday 02 June 2006 13:11, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > > Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > > If good ideas did spread, sales tax would be unconstitutional in
> > > > more than Oregon and New Hampshire,
> > >
> > > Uh, sales tax is better than the alternative which is the
> > > income tax which, correct me if I'm wrong, Oregon has. I much
> > > prefer my state of no income tax and a sales tax, thanks.
> > OK, stay in the regressive hellhole you live in and avoid infecting
> > Oregon, then.
> > > > self-service gasoline would be banned for environmental, speed,
> > > > cost and safety reasons
> > >
> > > Environmental issues are a joke.
> > Spilled gasoline creates groundwater and air pollution. Even the EPA
> > says this.
> > > Speed? Hardly, last time I was in
> > > Oregon it took me longer to gas up my car than it did outside.
> > Unique situation.
> > > And last
> > > time I was there in an 18-wheeler they still self-served their own
> > > fuel.
> > If they have a cardlock card, yes, they can, because they're
> > technically also an employee of the gas station then.
> > > Cost? Let's see, I know have to pay for several lackeys to pump my
> > > gas for me and that is supposed to *lower* prices? Haha, you funny.
> > Vancouver, WA self service prices as of this morning: $3.209/gal
> > Portland, OR mini-service prices as of this morning: $2.899/gal
> > Hmm, which is cheaper again?
> > > > more than Oregon and Illinois would have regional governments and
> > > > urban growth boundaries,
> > >
> > > And this is good, how, exactly? You want all cities to be as
> > > pack as NY?
> > Yes, because otherwise they sprawl like Los Angeles, the greater evil.
> > > > cities other than Portland, Seattle and New York
> > > > would have the kind of transportation infrastructure that isn't an
> > > > expensive joke,
> > >
> > > By this I presume you mean public which is in and of itself a
> > > complete joke. Yeah, 2 hours to get the same distance as it takes
> > > me 30 minutes on my motorcycle.
> > No, I mean overall. Overemphasis on the freeway and lack of
> > efficient public transit have dragged most of this continent to a
> > standstill.
> > > > airlines would have to compete against ground transportation
> > > > with their own money, not tax dollars.
> > >
> > > About the only good idea right there. Of course it isn't like
> > > ground transportation isn't using tax money as well.
> > Save for Amtrak, which is the postal service for when you need to
> > ship a warm body, name one.
> I know of a large metroplex where the only public transportation gets
> tax money. The "business" talked the cities into adding a full
> percentage point to their sales tax to help fund the bus line. And yes,
> they're still worlds slower than driving your own car.
> They needed the tax money so much that they started spending it on
> "art" for their bus stations that cost a couple $million a piece. Stuff
> that looked like twisted metal in one case and a woman shaking her fist
> at heaven in another.
> They were having such a riot, they talked the city governments into
> giving them even more money to start a rail line. It's faster than the
> bus, but only if you want to go to a very selective spot in the
> downtown of a member city. Otherwise you have to use the rail to get to
> a bus stop so you can still have a 2 hour long ride.
> I don't buy into the public transportation sales pitch, if you can call
> it that.
That doesn's sound like public transportation at all.
That sounds like a shill set up so that poeple will get the
understanding that public transportation can't work.
I've lived in cities where public transportation really did work.
And in ones where it didn't.