Re: Suggestions for Debian Harware Vendors

[Jason Martens <me@jasonmartens.com>]

Alvin Oga wrote:

> hi ya jason
>
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Jason Martens wrote:
>
>  
>
> > Hey all,
> >   We are currently a Dell shop
> >    
>
> my condolences :-)
>
>  
>
> > but are getting frustrated with the 
> > lack of debian support available for our Dell servers.
> >    
>
> and where is the "debian support" supposed to come from ??
>
> if it's dell hardware, than dell's policy is they will provide the
> support their vendors and your customers will ever need
>
> if we ( anybody ) changes the installed OS, dell's warranty and support
> is thrown out the window with the bath water, leaving the customers
> stuck until the orig dell installed os is back in their hw 
>  
I'm not talking about official support from Dell, but simply making life 
easier if I do choose to run Debian.  Perhaps my original wording was 
not right.

>  
>
> > Specifically, 
> > see these [1] [2] threads on the linux-poweredge list if you are interested.
> >
> > 1. http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2005-March/019671.html
> > 2. http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2004-May/014689.html
> >    
>
> i've long since given up on dell's mailing list
>  
I think this is a valuable resource if one is forced to run Debian on a 
Dell.  There are very helpful people out there.

>  
>
> > While much of the time, Dell hardware can be made to work on Debian,
> >    
>
> that's backward ..
>
> OS's can be made to run on any hardware ... or not depending on the 
> (human) installer abilities to make it work on that hardware
> 	- dell uses custom hardware and custom firmware which
> 	makes it non-trivial in some cases ( ie. not for beginners )
>  
Yes, it does seem somewhat backwards, but it is the non-trivial aspect 
that I am thinking of.  Imagine how easy it would be if Dell provided a 
repository for their OMSA and raid drivers! Or even a tarball 
installation instead of an RPM, that could more easily be converted to a 
.deb.  This is the kind of "support" that I am looking for from a 
hardware vendor.  Making my life easier.  If there is no vendor out 
there that does, then I guess I'm stuck with stupid RPM management 
packages and windows self extracting floppy disk images.

>  
>
> > I 
> > don't enjoy being a second class citizen to the RedHat, SuSE and Windows 
> > users.
> >    
>
> i'll refrain from any more bad jokes that i like to always point out :-)
>
>  
>
> > My question to the debian-user list is this:  Is there another 
> > vendor out there that supports their servers with debian as a tier-one 
> > platform?
> >    
>
> lots of vendors provide debian support on their own hardware they ship
> and/or support of other people's broken hardware
>
> 	eg.. we make tons of revenue fixing broken dell boxes
> 	after the customers have given up on "dell support"
>
> list of debian vendors 
> 	http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
>
> 	- note that some are hardware nuetral while others 
> 	support only their hardware
>
> 	- note that some are debian-ites and others are not
>  
Thanks, this is some of the kind of information I was looking for...  
I'm not sure how willing my bosses will be to go with a smaller shop, so 
I was hoping someone had experience installing Debian on say Sun, HP, 
IBM or Penguin Linux for example, and can say if it was difficult to get 
everything working, or easy.  Remote management is also a primary concern.

> the problem with "dell support" is that they send out generic gorilla
> to come and look at the customer system, even if they cannot fix it,
> but can claim dell was out there in 4hr or 24hr per their contract
> 	- these generic gorilla sometimes have the expertise needed
> 	and sometimes clueless other than a body to sign in that 
> 	they showed up ( and they don't even work at dell but is
> 	outsourced )
>
> fixing it is a separate issue, and i think everybody understands that
>
>  
>
> > I am looking for anything that can shed light on the 
> > situation like mailing lists for other companies similar to the 
> > linux-poweredge list, personal experience, comparisons involving debian, 
> > etc. 
> >    
>
> there's too too much "light" and solutions and options ...
> for a vendor or for the customers
>  
What does this mean?

>  
>
> > I have some freedom to choose here, and I want to reward the vendor that 
> > is the most open and supportive of debian.  Finding that vendor is the 
> > problem right now.
> >    
>
> that should be trivial to find ...
>
> the problem most support providers have is that they expect to be
> paid for their expertise .. not $5/hr ... that other support outfits
> require to hire their gorillas vs having folks that do this for a living
> 24x7 to fix other peoples hardware and software and installations
>
> 	- most customers initiall will not pay for additional professional
> 	"support" and thus they have to decide which is worst:
>
> 		live with the broken (dell) systems or pay the folks that 
> 		can fix it once and for all
>  
I think you misunderstood what I am asking for, which is probably my 
fault.  I don't care about "official" support as much as I care about 
their systems being open and accessible to Debian, without having to 
convert RPM binary monitoring tools.

Thanks,

Jason Martens