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Re: Suggestions for Debian Harware Vendors

hi ya jason

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Jason Martens wrote:

> Hey all,
>    We are currently a Dell shop

my condolences :-)

> but are getting frustrated with the 
> lack of debian support available for our Dell servers.

and where is the "debian support" supposed to come from ??

if it's dell hardware, than dell's policy is they will provide the
support their vendors and your customers will ever need

if we ( anybody ) changes the installed OS, dell's warranty and support
is thrown out the window with the bath water, leaving the customers
stuck until the orig dell installed os is back in their hw 

>  Specifically, 
> see these [1] [2] threads on the linux-poweredge list if you are interested.
> 1. http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2005-March/019671.html
> 2. http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2004-May/014689.html

i've long since given up on dell's mailing list

> While much of the time, Dell hardware can be made to work on Debian,

that's backward ..

OS's can be made to run on any hardware ... or not depending on the 
(human) installer abilities to make it work on that hardware
	- dell uses custom hardware and custom firmware which
	makes it non-trivial in some cases ( ie. not for beginners )

> I 
> don't enjoy being a second class citizen to the RedHat, SuSE and Windows 
> users.

i'll refrain from any more bad jokes that i like to always point out :-)

>  My question to the debian-user list is this:  Is there another 
> vendor out there that supports their servers with debian as a tier-one 
> platform?

lots of vendors provide debian support on their own hardware they ship
and/or support of other people's broken hardware

	eg.. we make tons of revenue fixing broken dell boxes
	after the customers have given up on "dell support"

list of debian vendors 

	- note that some are hardware nuetral while others 
	support only their hardware

	- note that some are debian-ites and others are not

the problem with "dell support" is that they send out generic gorilla
to come and look at the customer system, even if they cannot fix it,
but can claim dell was out there in 4hr or 24hr per their contract
	- these generic gorilla sometimes have the expertise needed
	and sometimes clueless other than a body to sign in that 
	they showed up ( and they don't even work at dell but is
	outsourced )

fixing it is a separate issue, and i think everybody understands that

>  I am looking for anything that can shed light on the 
> situation like mailing lists for other companies similar to the 
> linux-poweredge list, personal experience, comparisons involving debian, 
> etc. 

there's too too much "light" and solutions and options ...
for a vendor or for the customers

> I have some freedom to choose here, and I want to reward the vendor that 
> is the most open and supportive of debian.  Finding that vendor is the 
> problem right now.

that should be trivial to find ...

the problem most support providers have is that they expect to be
paid for their expertise .. not $5/hr ... that other support outfits
require to hire their gorillas vs having folks that do this for a living
24x7 to fix other peoples hardware and software and installations

	- most customers initiall will not pay for additional professional
	"support" and thus they have to decide which is worst:

		live with the broken (dell) systems or pay the folks that 
		can fix it once and for all

without knowing the kinds of specific problems you need solved, there is
no "general solution", other than get 2 or 3 support proposals to 
address that particular problem

having a specific problem ... there's a dozen possible real solutions
and some are free, some are typical $$$ and some are expensive due 
to the installation at the customer site

- we have made our living providing linux support on dells :-0
	- that is good and bad ..

	and dell doesn't know anything about us and/or we won't
	even register as a ambient noise in their vast list of
	their official support list

	- we're NOT affiliated with dell and never will be
	since we ship our own hardware too

	- note that other large linux vendor also provided official
	support on dell, but they have given up on dell
	( too much beauracracy and paperwork is my guess for $0.01 )

c ya

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