Re: why debian - longer
hi ya steve
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Second you're confusing two issues.
probably more that i was unclear :-)
> Knowing and using a package manager
> does not preclude one from learning how to resolve issues.
yup
> Package managers are tools and are meant to be used.
yup
> Tools do not prevent people from learning.
but one has to learn how to use the tools effectively
which was the point of one set of commands everybody knows
vs distro specific commands ...
> People do that. The absense of a package
> manager does not instantly qualify someone to resolve any issue.
you'd be surprised ... how many people asy "where's the rpm for foo"
and less common for others to say "where the *.deb for bar"
package managers needs the binaries pkg in its format, and i equate
the one to be used with the other and not separate issues
> The presence
> of it does not disqualify someone from resolving any issue.
see above if the *.deb or *.rpm is not present :-0
> However there is
> one difference. The presence of a good package manager (dpkg/apt and the
> underlying policy that drives them a prime example) *reduces* the amount of
> problems and *expands* the pool of knowledge.
yup...
add a set of good defaults compiled into the binaries..
add a set of good default config files
... etc ..etc..
not just "good package manger" was the point i was making
> When you install a particular
> package you're, in essence, borrowing the experience of the package maintainer(s).
and the testors, and the newbies, and everybody else
> BTW, nice contrived example. "No outside help."
that was the popint ... "what can "*-you-*" do in the period allocated
- looking for answers in 'google' is new thingie....
what did people do in the stone ages before the web showed itself
> Is that like the ultimate argument for vi, er, ed?
guess you're missing my point about "no outside help", but not a biggie
> attempt to use such example. When was the last time that you were stranded on
> a deserted island with a laptop, 2 hours of power, a set of install floppies
> and no manuals? :P
if you travel to corp customers sites .. you know you always needs
something else that you didn't bring with you this time, based on what
the customer said they wanted done
- you will have left your other kitchen sink at the office
- and sometimes at some corp customer sites, you will NOT have
access to the outside ( fairly common security issue )
and have to rely on "sneaker net" ( floppy or cd or usb or camera
or phone call to get what you need )
the point was, if you can fix it, whatever it is, in isolation, you
can certainly fix it at a corp customer site or at the house
and for fun, don't forget the case where the laptop disk crashes on its
way to where you are heading, or dropped laptops
( ever notice that the number of dropped or stolen laptops
( have gone down in the past couple years ??? people are not
( as "careless" about it ... one customer lost about about 25%-33%
( laptops every year
have fun ..
c ya
alvin
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