Re: why not anaconda installer
Kent West wrote:
belahcene abdelkader wrote:
--- Thomas Adam <thomas@edulinux.homeunix.org> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 12:22:09PM -0700, belahcene
abdelkader wrote:
I don't understand yet why debian doesn't use
the
anaconda as installer. It is very easy for installation !
Easy is subjective. Easy for what? How?
Easy for first-timers. A GUI is what they're used to. It's there, it
works and it's easy to use.
If you prefer to do text-mode installs, that's pretty easy too.
Easy for sysadmins.
Just give me some time to set up my install server and to make a
standard configuration or two, then line 'em up. HP Vectras & Pavilions,
Compaqs, IBMs with or without SCSI, Acers, cheap clones, IA32, AMD-64 I
don't care, just plug 'em in, boot them, wait for them to shut down in
5-10 minutes, unplug 'em.
Intel NICs, 3COM, VIA RHINE, Realtek - I don't care. Video cards - any
brand, I don't care.
It's that easy. I know because I used to install RHL 7.3 in under 15
minutes on a Celeron 733 or some-such on a 10 Mbit LAN.
OK ; First look at for example when you install
Knoppix ( I mean specially for the new debian user )
The hardware is automatically found , the choice of the package at
least the commonly used a friendly graphical interface
( same thing with suse or redhat installer) I would like to get
something like this to install the
debian
I prefere debian for many aspects, but I think the
installation is not easy yet.
The general answers given are:
1) Debian works on 13 different architectures. The installer must work
on all thirteen also. Trying to squeeze an anaconda-style installer to
fit 13 different arches is a lot more work than sticking with what
we've got.
I'm glad of an opportunity to dispell some of these myths.
Today, Anaconda supports these architectures:
IA32
IA64
AMD-64
PPC - IBM iSeries, pSeries and Mac
IBM S/390 & zSeries
I think, from a quick look at the code, it also supports Sparc64 and alpha.
Not all platforms Debian supports for sure.
Of the platforms available, IA32 is the most demanding because of the
enormous array have hardware that must be supported. AMD-64 and IA64
would come close.
With other platforms the number of vendors is greatly reduced - mostly
Macs run Apple hardware,vendors if hardware for IBM machines will make
their hardware look to IBM software like IBM hardware etc.
Anaconda's been around for years, it's had time to mature and have its
most serious faults beaten out of it. Recently, I installed RHL 6.2 on a
Sparc because Woody wouldn't.
2) Installation on Debian only has to be done once, unlike some other
distros that require a re-installation with each so-called "upgrade".
Therefore installation ease is not a high priority. Maintainability is.
I've got news for you. Any RHEL is supported for (I think) five years,
certainly more than three. If I'm a corporatiion buying on a three-year
lease, upgrading to the next release is completely unimportant. However,
technology updates _are._ I want to be able to run recent PHP, to
upgrade to a (supported) 2.6 kernel, upgrade my KDE or Gnome when there
are significant improvements.
More news.
I presume that by "maintainability" you are referring to software
maintainability. Red Hat's caught up.Sign up for Red Hat (Enterprise)
Network, run up2date nightly in download mode and it's just like running
apt-get in download mode. Additionally, you have yum (which I've never
used) and apt-get (which I've never used on an rpm-based system).
We've passed on past Anaconda, but it's hardware detection that makes
Anaconda work so well, and it continues to work well after install.
Motherboard died? Just replace it. And the PCI cards if you want.
Reboot, and kudzu starts up to reconfigure your network (because you
have an onboard SIS NIC now instead of the PCI realtek), your video,
your sound, your mouse.
Several times in the past month I've sene people asking about which
driver for their network card. Not an issue with RHL, it just happens.
People assert that the text editor is the best configuration tool
around, but the fact is I'd rather not _have_ to know what module drives
my Via NIC and where to specify it. Better, IMV, that there is software
that can do it and do it right first time every time.
3) The Debian developers are volunteers. They scratch their own itch,
and creating an installer isn't within their domain of interests as
much as other projects are. If you want a good installer, write it
yourself, or talk someone else into writing it. Don't demand things of
volunteers.
The volunteers solicit contributions including bug reports and
suggestions for improvement. Those are every bit as valuable as helping
the less experienced on these lists.
4) Some folks don't like anaconda-style installers, because it's a
solution that doesn't fit their problem. I'm not familiar with
anaconda, but does it allow remote network-based installations?
Booting from a USB pen drive and pulling the rest from the network? etc.
Sure. Some years ago I booted a CD and installed a beta (Phoebe I think
it was) from the Internet. Worked better than the official Debian
installers.
5) If you insist on an easy install, there are Debian distros that
provide that. Debian is the core; these other distros are the fluff.
Xandros, Libranet, Knoppix, Kanotix. Kanotix is based on Knoppix, but
results in a pure Debian install. You might want to go that route.
You can have Anaconda for Debian right now. See www.progeny.com.
Generally, the people who ask about an easy-to-install Debian are
thinking x86 workstation use, and don't give any thought to the other
12 architectures or to special-use situations. That's okay, but you
need to be aware that Debian is a bigger project than that.
The IA32 boxes are the hardest because of the diversity of obscure (and
not so obscure) hardware available.. Of the platforms I know, S/390
would be easiest. No sound, no graphics, every disk is a 3390. A choice
of, maybe, three network adaptors.
The one drawback to Anaconda is that it requires more RAM than will be
found on your average 386:-) It _might_ do a text-mode install in 64 Mbytes.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa@computerdatasafe.com.au Z1aaaaaaa@computerdatasafe.com.au
Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/
Reply to: