Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:05:15 -0600
Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 23:07, ben wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:38 -0800
> > <donw@examen.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 11:39:31AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> [snip]
> > whatever about the rest, a theocracy in a century! bush has already
> > made public statements about how god instructed him to invade
> > afghanistan and iraq. what the hell happend to separation of church
> > and state? on top of
>
> Tell you what: I won't interpret the German Constitution if you
> don't interpret the U.S. Constitution.
nah, i've got a better idea: you feel free to interpret the german
constitution or any other text in the world, or not, as you wish, and
i'll go on feeling free to do the same. no need to forbid yourself
anything on my account.
>
> Do you even know what "separation of church and state" means? Does
> it mean "government officials shall avoid religion at all costs",
> or does it mean "Congress shall make no law respecting an estab-
> lishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?
> http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/amdt1.html
> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1
>
> Yes, that's right: Jefferson didn't mean what we now understand
> "a wall of separation between Church and State" to mean.
>
then i take it you haven't read jefferson's wall of separation letter.
there's a copy of it at
www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall,
a transcript of the original in the library of congress.
in response to the two questions above, consequent to my interpretation
of the statements made by jefferson in that letter, the first answer
would be that i believe i have a fairly good grasp of what jefferson
understood separation of church and state to mean, and the second answer
would be that, both definitions above are equally correct.
don't get me wrong, i'm not an america-basher. i know and like the
place, but i'm very concerned that so much that is great there, in
particular the vast range of freedoms implied in the constitution, is
being steadily pulled out from under you by the current administration,
and in such a manner that the conditions under which us other humans get
to live are also detrimentally influenced. i think that the process by
which individuals get to be in power, there, has been steadily removed
from the people to such a degree that too many, albeit well-intended and
loyal good folks, have begun to rely on blind faith rather than to
continually regard government sceptically, as a necessary evil that
should always be held in check and held to account for the manner in
which it deals with its allotment of public trust.
ben
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