On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 22:17, Marc Wilson wrote: > On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 06:02:33PM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote: > > True. Perhaps it would have been better stated by saying that every distro > > that wants to cater to Desktop users needs to implement a GUI installer > > (and many other GUI tools). > > Why? The *user* has zero business installing the box. Yes, Joe Moron > benefits from having GUI tools, because they mean he doesn't have to think, > but it matters not for the installer. > > Everyone is talking about intuitive interfaces, and Linux on the desktop, > and "the Windows XP killer", and etc... and no one wants to touch the basic > question: > > Why is Joe Moron expected to be installing the box? Not "how neat if he > could", but why in the world should it be set up for him to be able to? > Why do we *want* him to be able to? Why does anyone care if he can? > > Elitism be damned. You don't expect the man off the street to be > performing surgery... that's what skilled people are for. In fact, we > prosecute people like that who pretend, whether or not they hurt anyone. > What makes this different? Actually, I think the reason that this discussion tends to get brought up is because Linux hasn't been allowed to penetrate the home system market yet. Dell did pre-installs of RH on desktop systems for a while, but as far I know they've stopped that now except for servers. With the exception of Lindows now, I don't think there are any distributions available pre-installed on any big-name systems. Sure, you can get Debian pre installed at Joe's Computer Shack Inc, but not from Dell or Compaq or HP. Therefore, the only way that we can expect Linux to penetrate the desktop market is by users choosing to install Linux. That involves a few key points: 1) Your average Joe Somebody is never even going to consider chaning, assuming that s/he ever even HEARS of Linux in the first place. 2) Disgruntled Joe Somebody's who are sick and tired of Windows might be willing to give Linux a shot. 3) Technical users wanting more power will give Linux a shot. I think that 3 has been taken care of for quite some time. The only real limitation to these types of users is being able to do what they need to do in Linux. And with how mature of a system Linux is at this point, most technical users can use it full-time without a problem. 1 is never really GOING to get taken care of until we get the support of OEM's. Any user in category 1 is not going to change _what the system comes with_. Since systems come with Windows, users don't change. I'm willing to bet that 99% of all people in group 1 would NEVER change FROM Linux if it came pre-installed on their computer. 2 is the group that we have to focus on for the time being, and they're the group that require a GUI installer. The really have little to no idea of how their computer works, and they don't particularly WANT to know either. They just want it to work. Period. If your installer can't make them feel comfortable from the beginning, they're never even going to get far enough in to SEE your shiny X interface. And, unfortunately, for the majority of users this means that it HAS to be a GUI interface. My father has been using computers for longer than I have. He taught me DOS back in the early 90's. Today, he can't install a program in Windows with auto-run enabled without calling me. He calls me to ask me if its ok to click Next on each of the screens. I don't care how beautifully intuitive of a system you make, and if it's curses based or not, unless it LOOKS like Windows and unless he can CLICK something, he WILL NOT TOUCH IT. Sad but true. Now, with all of that said, I feel it is time to make one simple disclaimer. I don't particularly "want" idiot users in the Linux world. However, I DO want more mainstream support for Linux from vendors. Unfortunately, since the two are intertwined, I'm forced to choose. Personally, I'm happy the way I am. I'd much rather go without support for some devices and some programs than walk by a store and see a shelf stocked with $200 copies of Microsoft Linux PX (tm)(r)(c)(md)(ps)(ie)(eg)(pu)(etc) :) -- Alex Malinovich Support Free Software, delete your Windows partition TODAY! Encrypted mail preferred. You can get my public key from any of the pgp.net keyservers. Key ID: A6D24837
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