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Re: shuttle disaster



On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 15:12, David P James wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 12:18, David P James wrote:
> > 
> >>Travis Crump wrote:
> >>
> 
> >>>
> >>>People and corporations produce their own money every day as well;  have 
> >>>you ever written a check?  Try coming up with a difference between 
> >>>checks, iou's, deeds, stock certificates, bonds, etc. and government 
> >>>produced money that isn't circular, ie "the first set isn't money 
> >>>because it is not government backed"  Have you ever gone to a fair or 
> >>>arcade where you have to buy 'tokens' to pay for the games/rides?  What 
> >>>are the tokens if they aren't money?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll give you a difference: liquidity. There are also differing degrees 
> >>of transferability and risk associated with all the forms of assets that 
> >>you've listed. I can't just use the tokens anywhere; they are probably 
> >>only redeemable at that particular arcade, though I might be able to 
> >>sell them to another arcade-goer at par or at a discount.
> >>
> 
> > 
> > David,
> > 
> > You're missing the point, which is that "money", when it has no
> > intrinsic value (or backed by that which has intrinsic value, for
> > example, precious metals), become only, as another on the thread aptly
> > put it, "a means of keeping score", and is based on faith.  
> 
> Granted that money is a special form of asset because of its other roles 
> as a unit of account and medium of exchange but in terms of having no 
> intrinsic value it's not really alone as bonds, stock certificates, 
> checks or arcade tokens don't have any intrinsic value either, and 
> aren't generally backed by anything that has intrinsic value (except 
> maybe the tokens, which are backed by a promise of a real "service"). 
> The "difference" is that all the above (except the tokens) are backed by 
> a promise of money, which, as we have determined, has no intrinsic 
> value, so, in that sense, they're all issued and acquired based on the 
> same faith of the financial system's stability plus some faith in the 
> stability of the debtor.

Au contrere (contraire?), bonds are *secured* debt (say, by that factory
that was built from the proceeds of the bond sale), and stock cer-
tificates confer partial ownership, and, thus, if the corporation
were to be liquidated, the holder of the stock certificate(s) would
get an appropriate % of the net assets.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ron Johnson, Jr.     Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net           |
| Jefferson, LA  USA   http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson |
|                                                            |
| "For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start    |
|  with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc-   |
|  tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very    |
|  difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head     |
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|  the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I |
|  use the system."                                          | 
|   Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands                         |
+------------------------------------------------------------+



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