Carel, ls -1 /var/mail/userme ~userme/mail gives me a list of what is in /home/userme/Mail nothing like a number indicating how many mails, etc. Same same when i do ls -1 /var/mail/userme /home/userme/Mail and ls -1 /var/mail/userme /var/mail/userme I was mistaken about the permissions for /var/mail/userme they were user userme group mail. Best Wishes! Mike Olds www.buddhadust.org