Re: At peace with Debian (was: This is the last war...)
On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:33 pm, Glen Lee Edwards wrote:
[snip]
Glen,
My subjective thoughts. Feel free to ignore or use as food for thought
as you will.
> There are a very few people on the Debian list who sincerely try to
> help.
I would disagree strongly with this statement, and feel that you are
unfairly maligning the vast majority of people in the Debian community.
Looking back over the last few non "debian-users sucks" threads that
you've been involved in, I see one unfair flame about "ettiqutte" (sic)
- which you replied to with more lines of flame than the original - and
a lot of responses which were at the least, well-intentioned.
> There are a number on the list who use the opportunity to
> bully and bludgeon posters.
Some of your posts could be interpreted in that fashion also, certainly
when they are addressed to the whole list (thousands of people) rather
than to specific individuals that you have had less than satisfactory
interactions with. When these interactions have been less than
satisfactory, you have contributed at least as many lines of flame as
the people you've been interacting with.
> These people get an adrenaline high on
> abusing others, and provide nothing constructive in their responses.
> "FIX YOUR MAIL" is not a valid response. My dog is capable of making
> that statement.
Most of the "fix your mail" responses were explanations - or at least
suggestions - of *how* to fix your mail so that you could access the
Apache lists. You then mis-characterised the problem as a "Linux
problem" - which, quite simply is not the case, it's a problem with
your mail system not being configured to meet your requirements.
Posts that suggested how you could bring your mail configuration and
your requirements into line with each other were replied to in a very
harsh manner. This spiralled into near-flamage and then you started
posting mails addressed to the whole list which (IMO) were both
insulting to the list membership and completely unwarranted.
>
> I spent the last week thinking about it. I don't want the people I
> know to know that I use Debian. I don't want them to try it, join
> the Debian list, and then be subjected to the abuse that goes with
> being part of the Debian crowd.
The vast majority of people here do not "experience abuse". There are
occasional misunderstandings due to the low emotional resolution of
email, tempers fray, jokes get made that are not understood as such by
the people receiving them, etc. Most people accept that this happens
and have the maturity to "turn the other cheek" and not pour gasoline
on the flames in response.
I see more angry emails coming from you than from the people you're
unhappy with. Think about this.
> I've never met such an uncivilized
> and war like group of people - barbarians, many of whom don't have
> the intelligence to attempt an answer to a question that's been
> posted, so instead they harshly attack the poster.
I saw one flame was definitely unwarranted. It happens in an
unmoderated forum sometimes. Please don't tar everyone with the same
brush.
The rest of the "harsh attacks" looked to me like escalation, which is
the responsibility of both parties.
> I can assure you that you and Debian won't be missed. No
> professional in his right mind would use Debian on his business
> computers
I am a professional, and believe myself to be in my right mind.
I use Debian on both my business and personal computers because I
believe it to be superior to all the alternatives, considering my
needs, ability and willingness to RTFM, methods of asking questions,
and knowledge level.
Getting Debian configured requires a lot of work, but has high rewards.
Some people like automatic transmissions, I like to drive stick-shift.
YMMV.
> simply because most of the responses to his posts have
> nothing to do with the question,
Simply not true, though I can understand why you perceive it as such
for your particular case.
> but are nothing more than personal
> attacks.
Yes, there were some personal attacks after your later mails.
Maybe you should ask yourself how different they were from the
responses you made to posts you were unhappy with.
Many people here who weren't involved in the flame-wars feel attacked
by you in the same way that you feel now, and responded accordingly.
> What a joke.
I don't see it as a joke. When something like this happens in a
community that usually works very well, I see it as very sad.
>
> Glen
>
> PS Yes, you've been added to my spam filter.
- Derek
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