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Re: Blank Messages To Mailing List With Attachments Containing Message

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 08:40:58AM +0000, Patrick Kirk wrote:
| On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 23:59, Craig Dickson wrote:
| > begin  Patrick Kirk  quotation:
| > > Every windows box has it.
| > 
| > Sure, like downloading an executable installer for a better program is
| > so hard.
| It is so hard.

So is using email <0.5 wink>.

| There are no other windows email clients that have the
| ability to put shortcuts on panels.

I put the shortcuts I want on my "panel".  (The proper term, in M$
land, is "toolbar folder")  One of the first things I do on a 98/2k
system is trash the "Quichlaunch" toolbar and make my own folder where
I can stick the shortcuts I want.

| Even if there were, why bother when
| OE is there and works? 

As Craig said, it doesn't meet my definition of "works".

| OE is a flexible easy to customise mail client that even the least
| technical user can use without phoning for help.  

You contradicted this later in your mail.  See below for comments.

| As a simple example of why this matters, I tried KMail the other day.  I
| ahve IMAP accounts on 4 machines.  The imap folders tree on Kmail shows
| not just mailboxes but also every darn file in every directory.  So if I
| want to find my debian-user folder I have to wadte through a tree that
| has over 500 entries and is not in alphabatical order. 

Yeah, that's how IMAP works.  Ever tried it over telnet?  Now you need
to RTFM how to tell KMail that not all of the potential mail folders
the IMAP server reports are interesting to you.

| That kind of interface makes it unusable - the contrast with
| Outlook, Outlook Express, mutt and Evolution is obviuos.  In the
| graphical trio, I have shortcuts on the left hand side of my screen
| to the 8 or so mailboxes I use all the time.

There are some other options as well :

    o   use fetchmail to get the mail from each server and deliver it
        then (automatically) sort the mail into separate folders based
            on the source,
        now you're free from IMAP

    o   log on to the mail server itself and run a local mail client
        once again you're free from IMAP and can do anything you can
            do in a shell (including use standard mail processing
            tools on local files)

There are tradeoffs for each of these options.

| In mutt, I have a line:
| mailboxes! 'echo ~/Mail/main/*' 
| in my muttrc which means that mutt only tells me about interesting
| folders while spam, rootmail, etc. goes in ~/mail/filtered/

Right, but that only works because the mail is local.

| Its a pity because Kmail is a very nice program but I digress...

I have never used KMail myself, but I find it hard to believe that it
doesn't provide options to filter the list of mail folders the IMAP
server reports.

| My next door neighbour uses OE and regularly comes round asking for help
| after she's executed the latest virus someone has sent her or simply
| needs help finding where she accidentally dragged the toolbar.  People
| like her need a simple mail client.  If she were to use mutt, I'd have
| to move in with her!

I contend that if this neighbor wasn't using a MUA that is so
susceptible to the viruses you would get much fewer calls.  I would
not claim that mutt is a suitable mailer for *her*, but there are many
other choices besides OE.

| As for viruses, m$ screwed up.  'nuff said.  

As for exploding tires, Ford screwed up.  'nuff said.  Wanna go for a
spin?  Obviously not until the tires are fixed.  Same goes for
software.  If it's broke, don't use it until it is fixed.

| EXPRESS brough up both Karsten self's rant on this subject and several
| references to him.

Yeah, it's a well known bug that Karsten has worked (largely in vain)
to educate users about.



Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.
It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.
                                               -- Dave Parnas

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