On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 03:02:11PM -0800, Robert L. Yelvington wrote: > > Why do people suggest using things like mc(1)? What if Marcelo > > hasn't installed midnight commander? Let's instead suggest he > > learns about the tools on the system instead of learning about > > crutches such as mc. > > It's their right to. What's to say Marcelo didn't just discover > 'mc' when this person mentioned it to him? I admit it. I'm a UNIX elitist. I know not all people will not realize the philosophies of the UNIX operating system, the small-tools approach, but if I can influence just one person into doing a little research and learning the powerful advantages of a stdin/stdout "filter" approach to applications, then it's worth the trouble. What does mc(1) do? It taps into the libc libraries and cuts off some of the most powerful and flexible features of our system. The pipe is the bread and butter of UNIX. Why else do you think system engineers went to all the trouble of representing our hardware in terms of files?! When I graduated from college and landed a job writing embedded-SQL C programs for Informix on a Dec OSF/1, I was ecstatic! When the company later went to Visual Basic and ODBC as a "standard", I not only mourned the loss of my command-line and our increasing dependenc on the GUI. I think I subconsiously sabatoged my position! Needless to say, I didn't work there much longer. All this from a Biochemist by schooling. ;-) No, mc(1) is a crutch. It hides the details of the small-tools design and environment philosophy of UNIX. Are you going to learn what a *.gz file _is_ by using mc(1) to display it? No. Will you understand WHAT mc(1) is actually doing when you gayly press the arrow keys to traverse your directory structure? No. Yet, did I rant too much (ok... forget about the current thread. *grin*) No. I provided references and examples as to what was REALLY happening. Do I have much hope that said person will take my lead and learn what's happening on the base system? Not really, but someone will notice. Do I care if said person takes the easy way out and uses a crutch like mc or a GUI front-end? Not really. Someone will notice. If I reach one in one hundred, it's that person who will support the other ninety nine when shit hits the fan. > One of the greatest characteristics of open source email lists is > that if you don't like the way "they" respond to you, you can always > opt to not participate OR you can LISTEN and LEARN...(and you'll be > better for it either way). After all, open source is not for the > faint hearted! ;) I'm counting on it! Believe you me. However, I would like to point out that Debian does not always support the Open Source movement. Restrictive commercial "open source" licenses do not always live up to the DFSG. It always supports the Free Software Movement. There is a distinct difference. (Man, I sound like an RMS acolyte. *grin*) > Perhaps a newbie benefits more from reading about an unfamiliar term > or unfamiliar application or an obscure solution to a problem than a > mere vanilla explanation because the newbie is forced to ask more > questions and required to do more digging. Therefore, achieving a > more well rounded answer or solution? Thus why we should be there to break the illusions that CLI's and GUI's provide. Guidence and direction are wonderful. Tools that ease our work are grand, but understanding is divine. > Most of my time used to be spent pulling my hair out...and you know > what? I am a lot balder for it now! Yes, but I'd bet the knowledge you gained more than made up for your loss of hair. You have an added advantage of not looking like a disheveled geek as well. ;-) No hair has its advantages. ;-) -- Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net> | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD
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