Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Aug 21, Dave Cinege wrote
>On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:23:27 -0400, mdorman@debian.org wrote:
>>On Aug 21, Dave Cinege wrote
>>>I don't see the need.
>>Well, many others did. And many others agreed with the other changes
>>you disagree with. These decisions have been made. The time for
>>discussion is _over_, unless you've got something more substantial
>>than the pot-shots you've been taking so far.
>Who?
The Debian developers---the people who *are* Debian. And if you doubt
that for a moment, consider the two questions and their answers:
Q: Can the developers develop the distribution without any users?
A: Sure. It's stupid, but it can certainly be done.
Q: Can the users use the distribution without the developers?
A: No, because without developers no distribution exists.
>I've been reading this list long before the the notice of
>incorpoation came through. I never saw any discussion about
>it. Excuse me if I missed it, but I never remember seeing a single
>post asking if it was OK if a few guys in the group became 'Debian'
I'm sorry, you seem to have some rather unusual ideas about how Debian
is structured.
The developers are Debian. The developers are the ones who put in a
majority of the work (though I'll gladly admit that there are numerous
users who devote a heck of a lot of time helping others, thanks guys),
and in return for that work, they get the privelege of helping make
decisions regarding the technical and organizational direction of the
project as a whole.
(Some might suggest that this is like rewarding people for good
customer service by subjecting them to electroshock therapy, but it's
the best we've come up with.)
So, discussions of technical and/or organizational details take place
on the debian-devel list, where the developers are. We actively
solicit the input of users, and try really hard to accomodate users'
needs, but, in the end, the developers make the decision.
If you would like to directly participate in this process, I suggest
you consider expending some effort and earning the privelege. Then
you will have a full-fledged voice in the process.
>>If you feel these changes make it impossible for you to use Debian,
>>we're sorry, but it looks like the time has come for you to move to
>>another distribution or start your own or whatever.
>I just spoke with someone today about this, and he said it looks
>like this crap might just do that.
Sorry. Tough. Happens.
> There was no good reason for a corp to be formed. I kept
> quite. There was no good reason to put out an 'Official' cd (which
> hurt a lot of our CD-R guys), and I kept quite. Now for the most
> pethtic reason, the entire version control system (and quality of
> product, both perceived and actual) is at stake. Now I'm ventting my
> shit with full force. I see where this is leading.
There was a good reason for forming a corporation---removing legal
liability of the developers. As one of those developers, I would have
been sincerely pissed if I'd found myself a defendent in court over a
matter pertaining to Debian.
As for an official CD, which are you referring to, exactly? Now,
Debian creates a CD image that anyone is welcome to use. That was
done to try and insure that people who bought CDs from vendors not
intimately connected with Debian could have a reasonable chance of
getting a working set. It had to do with seeing that our name wasn't
mud because of mistakes that weren't our own---I suppose you could
call that political. I call it sensitivity to users needs.
As far as the issue of release naming, well, I don't feel strongly
about it.
But I will point out that this is an all volunteer project, and as the
people who badgered David Miller about a 2.0.31 kernel found out,
"venting your shit will full force" is most likely to get the
developers---the ones doing the actual work of making the
distribution---to quit bothering to do work for you.
So why don't you either put up or shut up?
Mike.
--
Don't touch that! It's the History Eraser Button
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