Re: Package configuration philosophy
On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote:
> > > Debian comes up in a much "rawer" form after install - for
> > > instance, no prompt beyond the basic "#" for root and "$" for the
> > > user (RedHat gives you the now famous "username /home/username$"
> > > prompt).
> >
> > # and $ are standard/expected prompts. if you want something
> > different, customise it yourself.
>
> I think you are missing my point. I'm not just talking about the
> prompt or X11 or any other specific package, but the whole shabam.
No, i'm not missing your point at all. I just happen to disagree with
it.
One of the things I *like* about debian is that it doesn't inflict
anyone else's aesthetic tastes on me. I don't have to edit a lot of
configuration files to undo some hideously garish display - it's plain
and simple and I can uglify/prettify it according to my own personal
(bad) taste rather than someone else's.
Also, a developer's time is better spent on making sure the package
WORKS rather than making it conform to some aesthetic standard which
appeals to everyone (which, btw, is impossible...doing graphic design by
concensus leads to blandness - and blandness is inherently offensive)
> > debian has a 'menu' package which all other packages can use to register
> > [...deleted...]
> > Not all packages are using menu yet, but most are.
>
> Yes, I know about this - I found it out a few days ago, BUT, you
> are again missing my point that in *my*, yes, *my* view it would be
> an advantage to have some sort of nice default setup instead of a
> bare-bones system.
What you want is there. Install the menu package, and all packages which
use it WILL appear in the menu. You don't HAVE to customise the menus
(but you can if you want to)
What more do you want?
> Yes, all the tools are in place to help me customize but the system
> is still bare-bones.
So what's missing?
What would you like to do? How would you like the system to appear?
> I don't know about you, but I am into Linux as a hobby - I only have a
> few hours a week to devote to it. I *will* get around to learning all
> the intricacies and I *will* configure it to my own tastes, but in the
> meantime, while I am learning all the functions I would prefer a nicer
> setup.
So start by learning what you need to know to have a "nicer setup". If
you dont have the time to trace through all the documentation to find
out exactly what needs to be done, then at least skim the docs to get an
overview of how it works and ask specific "how do I...." questions on
debian-user.
not only will it be more satisfying to have done it by yourself (with or
without help from the mailing lists), but you'll also learn a lot faster
as you will have the positive reinforcement of seeing the changes you
make actually have an affect on the system. You WON'T get that if it's
all spoon-fed to you.
> My complaints have to do with the fact that for someone taking Linux
> as a hobby, as opposed to it being a part of his work or very soul,
> Debain seems to neglect the fact that I can't learn it all in 3
> days/weeks/whatever yet still would like a simple working system while
> I go through the ropes.
Nobody can learn it all in 3 days or 3 months or whatever. I've been
using, working, and playing with linux for over 3 years and I still dont
know anywhere near all there is to know about it (that's one of the
things i like about unix - i'll never get bored of it)
What you do have with debian is a solid, stable operating system which
wont fall over on you while you learn it. You can break it and make it
crash if you want but at least you know that it's something YOU did (and
can therefore UN-DO) rather than something inherently broken in the
system which you can't fix.
and that, IMO, is worth it's (virtual) weight in gold....or PPro200 CPU's
whichever is worth more at the time.
craig
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