Re: workshop debian packaging
On Tuesday 19 May 2009, Faidon Liambotis wrote:
> V13 wrote:
> > <rants about Debian's process>
>
> Δεν γνωρίζω τα συγκεκριμένα που αναφέρεις και δεν ξέρω με ποιόν ακριβώς
> συναστράφηκες με το συγκεκριμένο.
Me thn debian-mentors, me to #debian-mentors, me to #debian-devel kai esteila
kai ena mail sth debian-devel to opoio den apantithike pote.
> Γενικά όμως:
> - πρέπει να εκτιμήσεις ότι πρόκειται για μια από τις μεγαλύτερες
> κοινότητες. Υπάρχουν καλοί, κακοί, δύστροποι, εύκολοι, απρόσκεκτοι κτλ.,
> τόσο sponsors όσο και sponsorees.
Ontos... Exo dei entelos diaforetikes symperifores. H geniki nootropia omos
fainetai na deixnei pros ayto poy perigrafo. Otan kapoios kanei/leei
asynartita pragmata tote tha eprepe kapoios allos na ton shmazevei.
> - υπάρχει πάντα, σε κάθε διανομή και process ελεύθερου λογισμικού το
> tradeoff ποιότητας/ευκολίας στη συνεισφορά.
To Debian exei arxisei na emfanizei diadikastika kai grafeiokratika themata
kai einai akomi neo. Den einai dynaton na apaiteis apo kapoion neo
packager/maintainer na efarmosei kati gia to opoio den exoyn symfonisei akomi
oi DDs metaksy toys (p.x. ta licenses sygkentronontai h oxi sto arxeio
copyrgiht?). Ayto eprepe na apagoreyetai dia ropaloy.
> - έχεις δοκιμάσει να στέιλεις patch στην LKML; :-)
Oti epikoinonia eixa sxetika me ton linux kernel itan *aristi*. P.x: apantisi
gia problima ston kernel apo sxetiko bugreport:
" This one is definitely bogus. It looks like the PIT frequency is wrong. Can
you try with 2.6.20-rc2-mm1 please ? Add "lapic=verbose" to the command line.
This might give us some hint."
Patch sthn LKML (krine monos soy):
http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/8/22/197
Kai arketes alles private antallages minimaton gia diafora themata.
> > Endeiktiko epixeirima poy exo akoysei (out-of-context):
> > "Please provide further information. A Debian system without root access
> > does not need a different layer of protection, especially as it brings
> > in another piece of kernel code (aufs)."
>
> Για το εν λόγω software, δεν έχω πειστεί ούτε εγώ προσωπικά, χωρίς
> παρεξήγηση.
To opoio fysika den exei na kanei me to packaging. Ayto akribos itan ena apo
ta pragmata poy ellega sto proigoymeno mail. Oti mesa se ola ta alla prepei na
apodeikseis oti to packeto soy einai xrisimo. Erotisi: Gia poio logo na prepei
na soy apodeikso ean to sygkekrimeno paketo einai xrisimo? Profanos gia na to
ftiaksei kapoios to theorei xrisimo. Amesos moy erxontai sto myalo ta
parakato:
a) Den exeis katalabei ti kanei.
b) Den exeis sxetiki enasxolish h sxetiko background oste na soy fanei xrisimo
se kati me to opoio asxoleisai h eixes asxolithei.
c) Den exeis megali fantasia h den thn eksaskeis.
... se kathe periptosi tha ithela na moy deikseis se poio shmeio akribos toy
policy anafairei oti tha prepei o packager na asxolithei me to na peisei
kapoion DD oti to paketo einai xrisimo kai poio to skeptiko piso apo ayto.
Prosopika moy fainetai apla os kati stenomyalo kai an to iksera apo thn arxi
isos na min empena ston kopo na asxolitho.
> > Fysika bebaia den anaferetai poythena to oti gia na pareis
> > apantisi prepei na eisai grammenos sth lista. Otan toys eksigeis me apla
> > logia to ti ginetai epimenoyn sthn ennallaktiki pragmatikothta kai den
> > dexontai to gegonos oti polys kosmos mporei na min einai grammenos sth
> > lista giati *DEN TO ANAFEREI POYTHENA TO OTI PREPEI NA EISAI*.
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
>
> Πήγαινε εκεί που λέει Code Of conduct: "When replying to messages on the
> mailing list, do not send a carbon copy (CC) to the original poster
> unless they explicitly request to be copied."
*OPOS EIPA HDH* den exei noima na exeis mia lista gia epikoinonia me kosmo poy
*DEN* anikei sthn koinothta toy debian kai na toy les "Steile mail sto
aa@bb.cc" xoris na grafeis sto idio shmeio oti an den einai subscribed sthn
mailing list ayth, den prokeitai na parei pote apantisis. Kai gia toy logoy to
alithes, idoy kai to sxetiko keimeno:
* You will be shown an RFS (request-for-sponsorship) template that you can
send to the debian-mentors mailing list to draw attention to your package.
* Finally a sponsor will hopefully pick up your package and upload it on your
behalf. Bingo - your package is publicly available in Debian. And this server
will automatically send you an email in case you did not notice the upload.
Apo th selida me titlo "Introduction for maintainers" poy brisketai edo:
http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-intro.
Fysika, den leei kati psemata kai ola osa grafei einai 100% sosta. Den pavei
omos na einai lathos antimetopisi.
Paradeigma: Bazo ena contact e-mail sth selida moy legontas: An thelete na
epikoinoniste mazi moy, steilete mail sto aa@bb.cc... KAPOY ALLOY grafo: "Gia
opoiadhpote epikoinonia anaferetai sto paron site tha prepei prota na
eggrafeite sthn YY mailling-list diaforetika tha sas eggrapso se 1000 spam-
listes"... fysika kai kapoy *ALLOY* leei gia to spam... den shmainei omos pos
den einai koroidia ayto poy kano...
Episis, akomi perimeno mia logiki eksigisi gia to skeptiko piso apo olo ayto.
Episis, *OPOS EIPA HDH* to na zitiseis to Freaking Rimadi CC den shmainei oti
tha se kanoyn CC!
Episis, *OPOS EIPA HDH* kathe enas DD mporei na exei diaforetiki apopsi gia to
policy.
Idoy sxetikos dialogos:
V13: p.s. Please CC me. I'm not subscribed to the list.
Matthew Palmer: Mail-Followup-To is your friend.
V13: It's a big pain to add this to mails for this list only (I'm using
kmail). An older thread in debian-mentors suggested that adding this note is a
right thing (tm) to do.
Boyd Stephen Smith: Requesting a CC is acceptable, AFAIK. I think Matthew
just wanted to suggest an alternative for you. It's easy for a user to
forget to honor a request in the body of the mail, but (for MUAs that support
it) Mail- Followup-To does "the right thing" automatically for them.
Kai oi dyo itan mia xara sthn epikoinonia. Kai oi dyo eipan thn alitheia.
*ALLA*, apo to parapano fainetai oti den mporoyn na dextoyn thn pragmatikothta
toy oti AYTO TO RIMADI POY PROTEINOYN NA KANEIS, SOY LENE META APO LIGO OTI
STH PRAKSH DEN DOYLEVEI KAI POS PREPEI NA BREIS ENA WORKAROUND XORIS NA
MPOROYN NA LENE OTI YPARXEI KAPOIO!
Thn opoia symperifora *THN ANEFERA IDI STO PROIGOYMENO MAIL*
> Κατά τα άλλα, αν δεν τα έχεις παρατήσει ακόμα και αν θεωρείς πως το
> πρόβλημα ήταν με τους sponsors σου και όχι με τις γενικότερες
> διαδικασίες του Debian, στείλε μου προσωπικό mail να δούμε το πακέτο σου
> μαζί. Δεν λέω ότι μερικές διαδικασίες δεν χρήζουν βελτίωσης αλλά
> εκατοντάδες άλλοι τα καταφέρνουν γενικά, ίσως απλά να έτυχες σε κακή
> περίπτωση;
Mpa... den asxoloymai pia kai poly... barethika kai moy thn edose. Idoy kai
orismenoi logoi:
a) vbackup: Akoysa to tragiko epixeirima toy "ayto to kanei idi to XXX
programma" kai moy pesane ta misa malia.
b) katimon: "Einai gia to contrib opote den mas endiaferei"... ASXETOS ME TO
OTI EINAI IDI STO EXTRAGEAR TOY KDE.... pane kai ta ypoloipa malia
c) fsprotect: "Den theoro xrisimi ayth thn efarmogi"... WTF??? Poy anaferetai
oti to kritirio gia sponsoring einai to ean oi DDs theoroyn xrisimes kapoies
efarmoges? Poia sto koraka einai ta kritiria? Ean isxyei kati tetoio, tote
giati den kanete prota mia psifoforia gia kathe neo paketo? Giati den lete
apla oti den yparxoyn apolyta kritiria kai oti polla ginontai analoga me tis
diatheseis toy kathe DD (a.k.a. pos ksypnise)?
d) libnet: Efarmogi poy idi yparxei sto debian, einai orphaned, bgike nea
ekdosi upstream apo neo author, etoimasa paketo, eftiaksa ITA, esteila RFS kai
*PALI* tipota. Apla den pira apantisi.
*IDI* metaniosa gia to libnet poy to anelaba. Isos na aposyro to RFS kai na to
afiso na to kanei kapoios allos. Skopevo na asxolitho mono me paketa gia ta
opoia exo ameso endiaferon.
Des kai ayto:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=513813
Bug poy kanei *axristo* to pykdeuic4, me etoimo patch. Meta apo ena mina to
ekana telika commit monos moy sto KDE. H olh epikoinonia me ta paidia toy KDE
kratise peripoy 20 lepta...
Des kai ayto to security-related bug:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=404927
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=462655
Synopsizo to parapano:
Dekembrios 2006: Bug report
Aprilios 2009: To bug diorthothike sto testing !
19 Maioy 2009: Akomi den exei ginei tipota me to stable:
brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 8, 0 2009-05-07 19:01 /dev/sda
H epikoinonia itan olh OK se ayto to bug report alla kai pali DEN mporesan na
doyne thn pragmatikothta h opoia ellege oti yparxei ena security bug kai
xreiazetai workaround mexri na lythei apo ton driver toy aacraid. Xreiastikan
2 xronia (!) kai ena debian release gia na diorthei kai ayto mono sto testing
(!) to opoio fysika den to exo dokimasei giati ta sygkekrimena mixanimata den
trexoyn testing, opote tha prepei na bgei prota to squeeze.
> Φαίδων
<<V13>>
p.s. Protimo na moy kaneis CC ta replies.
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