Re: sgml-tools for Linuxdoc
I did mistake once again,,,
MAILER-DAEMON> To: dave@lafn.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org
MAILER-DAEMON> Cc: sgml-tools@via.ecp.fr, jf@linux.or.jp, debian-sgml@debian.org,
MAILER-DAEMON> debian-doc@debian.or.jp
> Hi. I am now the maintainer for Debian package of sgml-tools (v1).
>
> I subscribed this list (ldp-discuss) several days ago.
>
> I add sgml-tools list as Cc:, because I think it is the place
> for "upstream" development of this sgml-tools.
>
> # I subscribed to sgml-tools list also.
>
> I add jf list as Cc: additionally, because it is related to my
> motivation to maintain this package :) as well as debian-sgml@debian.org
> and debian-doc@debian.or.jp.
>
> In <19991217203820.A122@localhost>, at Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:38:21 -0800,
> on Subject: sgml-tools for Linuxdoc, <dave@lafn.org> writes:
>
> > Many months ago I submitted a bug report to the Debian Distribution
> > regarding sgml-tools. I complained about too many blank lines. Finally,
> > someone (Taketoshi Sano) is responding to this. When I told him we
> > were still requiring sgml-tools (linuxdoc) for Howtos he checked LDP's
> > website. Unfortunately, our site at first gives the erroneous
> > impression that we are accepting DocBook for Howtos but then later
> > corrects that. I complained about this before and I now have an
> > example of the confusion it may cause. But the main purpose of this
> > post is not to complain about our website (although improvement is
> > needed).
> >
> > Taketoshi Sano has volunteered to fix real bugs in the Debian Package
> > for sgml-tools. This is good news since then one can automatically
> > covert it to a Redhat rpm package, making it easy for authors to use
> > it:
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 09:56:26AM +0900, Taketoshi Sano wrote:
> > > Anyway, I will work to fix "real" bugs in the current Debian package
> > > of sgml-tools.
>
> My motivation to maintain this package is to use it for translation
> of current LDP documents. I am a member of JF Project as well as
> a member of Debian. JF (Japanese FAQ) Project is a group to collect
> and distribute the documents related to Linux and written in Japanese,
> and it's activity includes the translation LDP documents into Japanese,
> as well as the translation of the document in Linux kernel source (such
> as the Configure.help file under Documentation/ directory). Of course
> some original documents are written by the members of JF Project.
> (I myself write some little one :)
>
> The web site of JF is http://jf.linux.or.jp/ (sorry this page is currently
> provided only in Japanese).
>
> In JF Project, the hacked version of Linuxdoc-SGML, and later another
> hacked version of sgml-tools are used. The modification is mainly for
> enhancement in Japanese support, and the addition of two extra tags
> for translators: <trans> and <tdate>. <trans> is for the name of
> translators, and <tdate> is for the date&time for the translation.
>
> We (the members of JF Project) needs these enhancement for sgml-tools,
> so I have added these modification on the Debian package of sgml-tools.
>
> I don't think it is right to generate derivatives of DTD with the same
> name, so I changed the name of hacked DTD (previously the modified DTD
> with the two extra tags were called as linuxdoc DTD in JF project) to
> linuxdoctr (linuxdoc for translators) dtd, and added it as a new DTD
> in sgml-tools. So current Debian package of sgml-tools 1.0.9 has
> support for the original linuxdoc DTD and the derived linuxdoctr DTD.
> commands in sgml-tools (sgml2txt, sgml2html, sgml2latex) are modified
> to support this new derived DTD.
>
> The enhancement for Japanese support is mainly modification to sgml2txt.
> sgml2html can handle Japanese characters as original, so I only added
> the label for Japanese in Lang.pm. sgml2txt uses groff, and current
> groff can not handle Japanese characters correctly, so we need to use
> jgroff and it's "-Tnippon" output device.
>
> # I think the right way is to add the japanese support on groff,
> # and some members in Debian project and Debian JP project are
> # working on this, but it is difficult work and it will take some
> # longer time to solve this, so I decide to use jgroff.
>
> Option "-Tnippon" is only used when "-c nippon" is used for sgml2txt.
> So users who do not need Japanese support can use normal groff safely.
>
> sgml2latex is also modified to call "jlatex" command when "-c nippon"
> is used.
>
> I have made some modifications on sgml-tools 1.0.9, as a separate work
> from the enhancement above for translation of LDP documents in JF.
> They includes:
>
> the "too many blank lines in output from sgml2txt" problem
> which was reported by David Lawyer against 1.0.7,
>
> * add new option "blank (b)" for sgml2txt to cut the continuous
> blank lines. modifications are done in fmt_txt.pl and related
> manpages. The default is 3, but is can be disscussed more.
> - Closes: #27094
>
> the "the section number/letter in output from sgml2txt is inconsistent
> after <appendix> tag" problem which was reported by Nikhil Nair against 1.5.1,
>
> * modify lib/dist/fmt_txt.pl and lib/dist/sgmltools/groff/mapping
> to enable sgml2txt output appendix numbering as letter correctly
> - Closes: #2669
>
> the "can not handle the filename with spaces" problem reported
> by Inaky Perez Gonzalez against 1.0.5,
>
> * modify lib/SGMLTools.pm, lib/dist/fmt_txt.pl, and lib/dist/fmt_rtf.pl
> to enable the handling of a filename with spaces for text and rtf
> output.
> - Closes: #27488
>
> and some more.
>
> * modify Makefile.in to rewrite man pages and to replace some
> Macro-like word ($LINUXDOCLIB, $LINUXDOCBIN, $LINUSDOCBIN)
> - Closes: #40349
> * modify lib/dist/sgmltools/groff/mapping to suppress error messages
> about undefined LH and RH. Closes: #50121
> * modify lib/dist/fmt_txt.pl to convert entities such as < and >
> when "--man" is specified.
> - Closes: #24467
> * support "-l pl" for polish language, taking the patch from
> <http//www.sgmltools.org/todo/72.txt>.
> Thanks for "Konrad Roziewski" for this patch.
> ...
>
> > He's already fixed the "too many blank lines" problem in v1.0.9 by
> > introducing an option to select the maximum number of contiguous blank
> > lines. But what is version 1.1.15? Where does it come from and what
> > is it based on. There are also patches to fix 1.1.15. (This result
> > is 1.1.16?) Is it better than v1.0.9 (or v1.0.11)?
>
> I think 1.1.15 is one of the prior series to the current upstream
> development version (2.0.2). If you use Debian, then install sgmltools-2
> package and check /usr/doc/sgmltools-2/changelog.gz.
>
> > Note that the "too many blank lines" problem was also fixed by someone
> > in Brazil who came out with what he called v1.0.11 but later removed
> > it from his site and said it was a "bug".
>
> I don't know about 1.0.11. I have checked the upstream's development ML
> (sgmltools@via.ecp.fr) via their Web, and someone wrote that there were
> 1.0.10 and 1.0.11, and they were used by ldp people, but they are not
> authorized by upstream.
>
> > Are there more real bugs in sgml-tools? I found that I couldn't use
> > certain symbols in section names. It didn't like "quotes" there.
> > This may not be a bug as the manual says that sometimes you need to
> > use &dquot instead of ".
>
> I think to use "&dquot;" is the right way to handle this.
>
> In <385DF979.71534C25@mail.nyx.net>, at Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:40:09 +0100,
> on Subject: Re: sgml-tools for Linuxdoc, Stein Gjoen <sgjoen@mail.nyx.net> writes:
>
> > Another annoying bug is that any <tt> tags in a heading causes
> > these entries in the table of contents to cut the title at the
> > position of the tag.
> >
> > Example:
> > HTML: 6.3 Linux md Kernel Patch
> > 12.8 fstab
> > ASCII: 6.3 Linux
> > 12.8 (TT
> >
> > These bugs have been pointed out on this list earlier, isn't it
> > time to keep a list of bugs and suggestions? We seem to be
> > rehashing these issues at LDP regularly yet very little has
> > happened until now.
>
> Can you show me the sample sgml file ? I think this problem
> has been fixed in upstream. I have not worked on this, but
> sgml-tools 1.0.9 does not show this problem when I create
> and check a sample sgml file.
>
> In <19991220144253.C1182@victis.oeil.qc.ca>, at Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:42:53 +0100,
> on Subject: Re: sgml-tools for Linuxdoc, Guylhem Aznar <guylhemlistes@free.fr> writes:
>
> > On Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:40:16PM +0100, Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl wrote:
> > > As long as the LDP does not take control of the sgml-tools (the v1 stuff)
> > > the tools will remain unmaintained.
> > > Ackwardly enough the tools are unmaintained for over a year now and LDP
> > > still relies on linuxdoc sgml for all the documents without bothering to
> > > maintain a toolkit.
> >
> > We already talked about this.
> >
> > If someone is willing to maintain the sgml-tools, a section can be added
> > on linuxdoc.org.
>
> I have commited my patch for sgml-tools 1.0.9 (excluding Debian specific part)
> into http://jf.linux.or.jp/workshop/archives/diff.sgml-tools-1.0.9.jf4.gz
> (31596 bytes) via our CVS (for JF maintanance)
>
> You can download and check it from there. Note this patch is under checking
> by other members in JF for the system other than Debian. I have only Debian,
> so I can't check it on other environment.
>
> I think the upstream, Cees de Groot <cg@sgmltools.org>, and members in
> sgml-tools list may have something to advise for us.
>
> I currently do not have a plan to enhance this sgml-tools (v1) anymore, and
> only intend to fix the bugs. I have heard that DocBook DTD, or XML (DocBK)
> has more power, and moving toward them is expected in the long span.
>
> # I am personally interested in writing documents with graphics using
> # DocBook DTD, because linuxdoc DTD can not handle graphics. But I don't
> # have enough time to learn about DocBook currently,,,
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Taketoshi Sano: <sano@debian.org>,<sano@debian.or.jp>,<kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp>
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