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Re: are unattended updates a good idea?



​Mario,

I use 'unattended-upgrades' on a couple hundred enduser desktop workstations.  The idea being that most potential exploits in our environment might be through end-user browser/surfing.

I choose not to use it on a few hundred servers, most of which are internal or perform specialized scientific work, at this point in time.  We have a very limited set of servers exposed to the Internet and we tend to manage them manually. (see below for 'pdsh' and approach to servers)

I also have 'apper' installed with a change to the policy-kit rules to allow ANYONE (at the console) to *update* packages, but not to install new packages w/o root.  (dual-approach to updates, convenient if i ever have to backout unattended-upgrades for some reason)

I enable the update-notifier-kde package as well (kingston-notifier?) because 'apper's notifier popup doesn't reliably notify users of reboot-required events, even though it is supposed to ('update-notifier-kde' was supposedly deprecated for this reason).  update-notifier-kde does trigger occasional popups successfully. 

The hope here is that the end users will actually reboot the systems from being prompted by update-notifier-kde when an automatic security patch requiring reboot occurs.   I have limited success with that.  Probable reasons are:
   - users are not easy to train -- we also have lots of transient visitors.
   - users do not want to interrupt workflow
   - users often run multi-day/week/month long scientific jobs
   - users may just not "get" that they really should reboot
   - Wheezy has been much worse than Squeeze for updates that trigger a
     required reboot.  Users may be getting "burnt-out" on the frequency.

while not strictly addressing your question w.r.t. "servers", my experience with unattended-upgrades on the workstations over the past 3 years has been good.   I setup e-mails to myself -- so i have been notified a few times when a configuration file change blocks updates.

I have also setup 'apt-listbugs' on my systems, and 'unattended-upgrades' will sometimes block hard, because it has an issue where 'apt-listbugs' detects that ONE (or more) packages has a problem and returns a failcode causing UA to abort the upgrade entirely (no piecemeal re-attempt).  This requires manual intervention.  I have upped the threshhold on 'apt-listbugs' to critical to avoid that condition recurring frequently.

My experience in the past 10 years with Debian, is that i have maybe seen ONE update that had some fallout that was at all inconvenient.

For my servers, i will typically use 'pdsh' (LLNL distributed shell) to perform a global run of a forced updates.  ('pdsh' is very helpful here).

I use both 'dsh-group's for personal use, and an nfs-shared /usr/local/etc/genders (libgenders) file which contains attributes like 'os=debian_linux' to select servers/systems to hit

so, something like (genders module in play):

   pdsh -lroot -g 'os=debian_linux&&hwtype=server' 'aptitude update -q=2 && aptitude safe-upgrade -q=2 --assume-yes ... {pkgs...}' 2>&1 | tee upgrade.log

(it's important to use safe-upgrade, otherwise if you force-yes with noninteractive in batch mode like this, aptitude can end up removing packages if a package you specify doesn't have explicit dependency packages also listed on the command line.  It's always a good idea to run this command on one server first to make sure it doesn't end up doing something you didn't mean to.  said from experience :-( )

(i'm at home and don't have the full invocations of Dpkg options for stuff like retaining old configfiles and using noninteractive DPKG UI (via env-var -- i can get that later, if you're interested)

--stephen


On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Ml Ml <mliebherr99@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello List,

i have got about 50 Debian 6+7 Servers. They are doing all kind of
things like Webserver, Mailserver, DNS, etc…

I am using apticron to keep track of the updates, but i seem to use
more and more time updating the hosts.

Recently i came across the unattended-upgrade project
https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades.

Do you think it is a good idea to do security updates automatically? I
just don’t want to wake up one morning not having ssh access to my
Servers because an update broke everything. The servers are still very
important. I should not crash them at any time. On the other hand i
would like to be up2date with my security patches.

Is anyone else facing the same problem? What are your experiences
doing (blind) automatic security updates.

Or are you maybe using something completly diffrent like puppet?

Whats your practical experience with lots of servers?  (i am not
interested in theoretical advises :-P )

Thanks a lot,
Mario


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--
Stephen Dowdy  -  Systems Administrator  -  NCAR/RAL
303.497.2869   -  sdowdy@ucar.edu        -  http://www.ral.ucar.edu/~sdowdy/


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