Bug#907199: weboob, Gratuitous sexual references

[Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>]

Thanks for your mail and your attention.

Chris Lamb writes ("Re: Bug#907199: weboob, Gratuitous sexual references"):
> Just as one example from your previous message, you appear to reject
> working with upstream constructively on this, despite a solution
> involving them being beneficial to the entire free software ecosystem
> (not to mention avoiding rehashing a quite tedious and painfully
> predictable debate within Debian itself).

Well, others have definitely been trying that.  There is an issue in
the upstream tracker (mentioned in the footnote of Niels's message);
  https://git.weboob.org/weboob/devel/issues/154

This was reported in early August and has had no responses from the
upstream maintainers, despite several pings from other people.  I
think it is clear that upstream are aware of the complaint but are not
dealing with it (perhaps because it's no fun, or perhaps as deliberate
strategy).

I believe there have also been contacts between the Debian maintainer
and upstream, recently but well before that issue, but again those
don't seem to have produced an outcome I am happy with.

In this context, there is of course this blog posting.  But it's from
2013, and maybe views have changed.  Certainly I myself have done or
said things 5 years ago which I would take a very different line on
today.
  http://laurent.bachelier.name/2013/12/weboob-the-asshole-detector/

So it's true that we don't know for sure what upstream's current view
is on this situation, but that's not because no-one has tried to talk
to them about it.

There is also the issue that I think it would not be a particularly
good idea for me to try to make overtures to upstream.  As you note,
my communication style tends to put people's backs up.  Happily, other
people have been trying, and it seems better for me not to put my oar
in.

So ultimately I don't know what other efforts you think ought to be
made.  If you advise that it would be better for me to try a direct
contact with upstream then I am happy to do so.  In which case I would
appreciate a (private) review from someone of my proposed messages.

> You also do not appear to have looped AH in on this, despite them being
> almost-certainly having some kind of viewpoint and de facto weight,
> if not a de jure one.

Did you overlook this email ?

  From: Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
  To: leader@debian.org
  CC: antiharassment@debian.org
  Subject: web-oob "gratuituous sexual references" issue now with d-release
  Message-ID: <23422.37882.517223.718163@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
  Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:01:14 +0100

  Hi.  I thought I should let you know that this is now with the Release
  Team.  I have asked the RT to rule on the RCness of my bug report
    https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=906119

  ITYSBT, in case you want to make some kind of representations to the
  Release Team.

  Regards,
  Ian.

I didn't receive any reply.  I also note that you yourself didn't
forward my message to AH as far as I can see.  I will do that with
this email, CCing you, right after I send it.

> As an important aside (and I'd like to underline that I don't really
> subscribe to this view myself) it is regrettable that your framing the
> idea of a GR at the moment can be interpreted as an ultimatum or - even
> more tragically - as a threat.

I can see why people might see things that way.

I would be interested to hear from you, how I should ask questions
like:

  "does the DPL think there are other useful avenues that we should
  try, before a GR"

or

  "how would the release team view a GR with an advisory text"

?

But perhaps your comment is directed to my earlier messagess.  I do
have a tendency to map out the future possible paths of a dispute
which is perhaps not very helpful.  But I think in this case surely
most people could see where this is probably heading.

Anyway, right now I feel I am running out of options.  I don't think
delaying resolving this issue is helping very much.

> Putting it another way, whilst drafting a GR is always technically an
> option for a Developer to persue, I highly suspect one gets far more
> traction, collaboration and "buy-in" with the rest of the Debian
> community if one is far less explicit about it.

Thanks for the feedback.  I look forward to your advice on the
key question I ask above, namely: what do you think I should do next ?

Thanks,
Ian.

-- 
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>   These opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.