On Mar 25, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> wrote: > On Mar 21, 2014, at 04:30 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote: > >> I'm on python-dev but not pypa-dev. But if you want to take the discussion >> there, I guess I'm ok with following yet another mailing list. > > Gmane makes life on a zillion mailing lists so much more manageable. ;) > >> Yep, they do that. That's actually another thing that we're working on right >> now - creating an upstream-acceptable patch that would make all system-wide >> pip installations go into /usr/local/lib/..., while system-wide RPM installed >> packages would install into /usr/lib/... We know that Debian already has some >> downstream patches for this and there is also a bug opened for this upstream >> [1]. But yeah, currently users just "sudo pip install foo" into system >> Python packages path. > > Many Pycons ago, Toshio, myself, Tarek, and several others discussed a scheme > where by (through more indirection of course), various packaging tools could > query configuration files to determine operating system specific paths. I > thought it was quite a nice scheme which would have let us easily drop a conf > file to declare where Debian wanted certain files installed, and Fedora or OS > X, etc could declare others. Mostly this was in the context of the (now > abandoned) successor to setup.py, but I think tools like pip and such could > have taken advantage of that. > > I'd still like something like that. On Debian, Python adds a /usr/local > directory to sys.path, but it's not /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages, > it's .../dist-packages for reasons we've long hashed out and I don't want to > re-open. Suffice to say that we do have a directory where `sudo pip install` > could install to that would play nice with system Python but wouldn't > interfere with distro packages. While I don't much like `sudo pip install` as > a general recommendation, in principle we support that. > > Just to keep in mind when proposing this upstream that distros will have > similar goals, but different concrete paths. I have a half formed idea in my head about a PEP that adds more directories on sys.path and the relevant APIs to query them (pip doesn’t decide where to install stuff, it just asks distutils where to install stuff). > >>> What will rewheeling prefer when: >>> >>> * bundled ones are newer than system ones? >> >> That's not currently implemented in our patch, since we'll be removing >> bundled wheels and relying on system versions only. But to solve this >> situation for the upstream patch, we'll do it like this >> - if user runs just "python3 -m ensurepip", nothing will happen >> - if user runs "python3 -m ensurepip --upgrade", his setuptools/pip will get upgraded >> Note, that this corresponds with current ensurepip documentation [2] of such >> situations. > > I read the patch, and I think I get it, but just to be clear, rewheeling > only covers pip and setuptools, not arbitrary other packages, right? As far as I understand it yes, also Fedora’s python-pip still bundles pip._vendor.* > > I still don't like introducing the circular dependency in Debian, so Piotr's > suggestion is about where I think Debian should head. That is: > `python3 -m ensurepip` would suggest (but not execute) to install python3-pip > (our binary package providing pip for Python 3) if it's not already > installed. The key thing is to make sure that pyvenv works in both cases. > > I'm not exactly sure about —upgrade. I assume once someone has installed pip with apt-get they’d still be able to run pip install —upgrade pip if they wanted too? > >>> I'm not sure what we would do if we wanted avoided the dependency cycle, and >>> pip/setuptools wasn't yet installed system wide. >> >> Yeah, that's a tough one and it's actually one of the reasons why we decided >> to introduce the dependency cycle. The obvious (and IMO wrong) solution would >> be subprocess.Popen(['sudo', 'yum', 'install', 'python-pip']), but that just >> isn't something that I'd want to do. > > Right, we wouldn't either I think. > > Cheers, > -Barry > ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
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