Thanks for following up here, and welcome to the list! I lurk on the Fedora list via Gmane, but I don't think I have posting privileges there. Responding a bit out of order. On Mar 20, 2014, at 04:53 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote: >I'll be glad to discuss this/answer all questions that might arise about our >approach. I'd really love to see it as a general cross-distro approach. I agree that a cross-platform approach is best, if possible. This may not be the best place to hash something out though, since we probably won't reach many other platforms (even Linux-based ones). Maybe python-dev or the pypa-dev list? I have a number of questions and issues with the downstream recommendations of PEP 453. If you'll be at Pycon, that might also be a good place to discuss. >Basically, we'll add runtime deps on setuptools and pip to python3 package, Doesn't that introduce a dependency cycle? If so, does that bother you? I don't particularly like it for Debian, but for Ubuntu it's a bigger problem because python-pip is in universe so it would require a MIR to pull that into main and avoid a cross-pocket dependency (on top of the dependency cycle it would introduce). >so systemwide "python3 -m ensurepip" won't actually do anything, since >setuptools and pip will already be there. With a reliable way to say "we are not in a virtualenv", I wouldn't mind if on Debian, a systemwide `python3 -m ensurepip` would recommend installing the python3-pip if it's not installed, much like command-not-found will do. It could also discourage the use of pip for the system Python (when --user is not given). Do Fedora users often want to pip install random PyPI packages into the system Python? >In virtualenv, our custom "rewheel" script (see the referenced mail for more >info/links) will repack the system setuptools and pip to wheels archives and >install them into the virtualenv. I've been discussing this with Nick >Coghlan quite extensively and he generally likes the approach, so we'll >probably be trying to push it upstream for Python 3.5 (our patch is general, >so it should work on any distro or even with vanilla upstream ensurepip). What will rewheeling prefer when: * bundled ones are newer than system ones? * newer versions are available on PyPI? * --upgrade is given? Does using --system-site-packages affect rewheeling? I'm not sure what we would do if we wanted avoided the dependency cycle, and pip/setuptools wasn't yet installed system wide. Cheers, -Barry
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