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Re: guidelines for Debian presences on social networks?

Jean-Philippe MENGUAL
Le 17/06/2019 à 15:33, Paul Sutton a écrit :
> On 17/06/2019 14:10, Holger Levsen wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 02:28:28PM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>>>> Make it clear that the presence is unofficial.
>>> I disagree. As I stated in previous thread about Instagram presence,
>>> it is better to have official presence on social
>>> networks than unofficial ones run by Debian "fandom". 
>> as much as you are entitled to have this opinion, it doesnt match the
>> opinion of the majority of the Debian developers, because if it would,
>> there would be other people supporting your opinion.
>> instagram is facebook is evil.
>> (and yes, I call them evil. they collect, process and pass on data of 
>> billions of people who did not consent to that (who are not their users).)

I think the discuss is not wether those social networks are evil or not.
Most Debian developers and current users are aware of what you say. But
having Debian accounts does mean posting via this account personal data
and contributing the massive data catch by those companies. Debian is a
project, not a person. And admins do not have to let all their data
online. Also, it does not imply people to access to the Debian publicty
via these netyworks only, they have an access where they wnt (including
free socail networks, and the traditional communication ways). It means
Debian becomes visible for people out of free software typical channels.
And it is important to get new users I think, out of our clasical areas.
Typically, young people is there, Debian lacks contributors, maybe they
will come from here. Any organization trying to catch people uses these
networks, because people is here. Do you really think that terrorist
organizations like these networks? Probably not, but all people they
catch is here. So promoting Debian here, it is offering people a way to
know alternatives to the world they are living and maybe, being
convinced to use and help the small Debian teams.

Impossible to explain these networks are evil to their users, via
alternatives where there ar experts only. We need to introduce our
values in the real life, to make them known, and alive in the long term.

> I think there are issues around how people perceive free software and
> how easy it is to use.
> A quick story
> Before the last tech jam, one of the people who runs this with me,
> expressed that she had concern over me installing Debian on the laptop I
> had been given for the jam a week earlier.  Apparently Debian is hard to
> use compared to other distros (I think for example Mint)
> I showed her the laptop with Debian 9 + LXDE. She is satisfied the
> opposite is the case.  Debian + LDXE is fine, looks good and is easy to
> use.  If the general consensus out there is that Debian and or Linux
> systems are hard to use, we need to try and counter that view.
> Note, I am not sure what people mean by hard to use.   It is a
> statement, not an argument, as if they made an argument it would be
> backed up by some sort of evidence, which we, as a community could
> either counter or address. 

People ar used to have either pre-installed things, or out-of-the-box
programs. To install Debian, you ned some computing skills, all the more
when you have firmwares. If you find a program on the Internet, it
probably will not install directly on Debian. If you search for help,
forums are in English. Hence this feeling. Mint or Ubuntu do the same,
but it is less visible in a first time.

I never hear this with Hypra, because when people open hteir Debian
computer, it is rady-o-use, and if they want to do something, they have
a personal assistance. No effort, so easy.

> I think one thing she hadn't realised is that synaptic is a package
> manager (  synaptic also relates to the touch pad )
> Something to think about, which for is techies is harder,  by my  own
> admission, in blog posts I tend to assume people will install stuff via
> the command line and my posts can reflect that in one line. I don't
> really see my self as that technical esp compared to full stack web
> developers,  kernel hackers or people who undertake development.

You are right, all the more as documenting comandline is easier than a
GUI ools to admin the system. But yes, it makes people worry.

> Perhaps we need to try and find out how people perceive Linux distros too,

Most people want more "out of the box" than "do it yourself". It is
probably the most classical guideline among users. And re-installing is
expected, not having technical stuff to set at installing. Beyond this,
it is a pure subjective thing, afraid of change.


> Anyway hope this helps,
> aul

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