Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures
Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> writes:
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10:43 PM Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> wrote:
>> Or, let me put this another way: one of the fears that I've seen
>> expressed around warnings is that it's a permanent record sort of
>> thing, or it starts a file on someone, or otherwise creates a
>> presumption of future bad behavior. [...] This bothers me a lot. I
>> think this perception is very harmful to the project because it creates
>> excessive shame and anger and fear, which can be quite
>> counterproductive in attempting to just get someone to shift their
>> behavior.
> Okay, so now you are saying I am being "very harmful to the project
> because [my perception] creates excessive shame and anger and fear"?
That is precisely the opposite of what I meant.
What I'm trying to express is that the warning *entirely reasonably* made
you feel shamed and attacked for a number of reasons, including the fact
that it was public, and that making you feel that way was unnecessary and
probably counterproductive. In other words, I think your reactions were
understandable and are evidence that the warning system is not working the
way that I think that it should because it doesn't provide enough
psychological space for people to understand it as I think it should be
intended.
And to be clear I think this is a problem with the tools that we have
available and the process we're currently using, not with how people are
trying to use the imperfect tools that we have.
> Your statement is plainly contradicted by the DAM warning I received.
> It included this line:
> If you continue resorting to personal insults when you interact with
> other people, the DAMs will have no choice but to review your
> membership in the project.
> Upon receipt, it was reasonable for me to express, in your words, my
> "fears [...] around warnings [...] that it's a permanent record sort
> of thing, or it starts a file on someone, or otherwise creates a
> presumption of future bad behavior."
Exactly. This is why I do not like the way that we are currently doing
warnings. The first step by a team that is serious enough to not be
ignored already feels like a threat of expulsion. I think we're starting
with too large of a hammer because we don't have the right tools to try to
course-correct earlier in a way that doesn't make people feel publicly
attacked, and the announcement of the warning to the project (an entirely
well-intentioned process that grew out of trying to solve a different
problem) makes people quite reasonably feel like they're being publicly
shamed.
--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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