Re: Asking for Calm
>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Steigerwald <email@example.com> writes:
Martin> Dear Sam.
Martin> Sam Hartman - 31.12.19, 15:37:09 CET:
>> folks, emotions are very high at the moment. It would really help if
>> you could let the discussion die down. If there are issues that you
>> need to address, please reach out to da-manager, the listmaster, DPL,
>> the community team, or anyone else who you think will hear you and
>> give you the help you're looking for.
>> We want to hear people even when they are very upset. Similarly, we
>> don't want people to be provoked into being so upset that they cannot
>> be heard.
Martin> How does that go together, Sam?
I think there is a time and a place for everything.
Sometimes, when people are really upset, it is hard for them to
constructively hear something.
Sometimes when they are upset it is hard to connect with empathy and in
your terms mutuality.
And so taking some space in time can gain the distance we're going to
need to hear each other later.
And yet, even at those times, some issues need to be dealt with
If you feel there is something not right going on and you need help with
it, I'm trying to give some options that allow you to reach out without
escalating emotions here on the list.
Martin> How is going to say "I feel hurt about the outcome of the GR" –
Martin> personally I am not even sure whether I do – or "I think the GR did not
Martin> serve the highest good of Debian" or something like that which is
Martin> *respectful* and within the bounds of Code of Conduct, suddenly not
Martin> acceptable anymore?
I'd like to be heard differently.
My focus was not intended to be on the GR so much as the thread about
diversity and the CoC and things that happened on that thread.
However, as I understand it, the GR is important to you, and now that we
have the misunderstanding of focus out of the way, I'd be happy to chat
about the GR.
For the GR, I think now is a time of emotions.
Trying to use NVC language, as I think that's a framework we both share.
On the GR, my guess is that now is a time when we could benefit from
offering and accepting empathy. Now seems like a great time to talk
about how we're hurting and what we're hoping for to get our needs met.
Now is a time for talking about how we're happy and what we look forward
to in the future.
Both of these hopefully with respect for people who have different
Now is a time for making gentle requests of others if those will help us
get our needs met better.
Right now, though, I think that we're probably in a time of feelings and
needs on the GR.
I would request that you not focus on discussing whether the GR was a
good idea or will benefit Debian at this time. I think that people have
strong feelings, and those feelings will get in the way of any analysis
of those issues.
I request that you consider whether the community would benefit from
connection and understanding of these feelings more than cost-benefit
discussions at this time.
I think those discussions will be more successful later.
If I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that you are upset when you
think about some of those discussions not happening. You need open
communication and are afraid/otherwise upset when you think about views
Is that a good summary of what I'm hearing?
I'd like to reassure you that I'm not trying to suggest that GR
discussions are unacceptable. As I've said above, I do have hopes for
what sort of discussions we'll focus on now. But yes, respectful
discussions of the GR are certainly acceptable.