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Re: Expense Rules for Mini-DebConfs



Le mercredi, 2 octobre 2019, 23.33:10 h CEST Sam Hartman a écrit :
> >>>>> "Didier" == Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> writes:
>     >> TL;DR: Do we want BSP organizers to take on the responsibility of
>     >> batching together travel reimbursement requests.
> 
>     Didier> Yes, but… I think we, as a project, need to be clear about
>     Didier> what this means, along at least three axes.
> 
>     Didier> First: what types of events qualify for travel
>     Didier> reimbursement?  You have mentioned BSPs, but would a
>     Didier> miniDebConf also qualify? Of course, it is the expectation
>     Didier> that miniDebConf attendees attend to "enhance Debian"; but
>     Didier> also that they might present, or attend talks,
>     Didier> presentations, etc; during which they are not (should not
>     Didier> be) hunting bugs. I think such micro- conferences, although
>     Didier> not explicitly Bug Squashing Parties, should also benefit.
> 
> Seriously, I think it is well established that (mini) DebConfs are
> available for travel reimbursements.  I think the procedures for
> mini-DebConfs and sprints are reasonably well understood and working
> well, so I wasn't planning on revisiting them at this time.

I realize I had not read https://wiki.debian.org/Sprints/HowTo recently; my 
bad. It has:
> Debian, within the limit of available resources, tries hard to cover travel
> and accommodation costs for those who have no other means to cover the 
> costs. Participating in developer sprints should be no personal financial
> burden to any of the participants. Usually, participants are expected to
> cover food costs by themselves, although exceptions might be considered.

Thanks for the reminder; this makes sense.

> I strongly believe that Debian should be about free software.  Every
> time we mix in some other issue, we reduce our contributor base and
> dilute our mission.  For that reason I'm not in favor of Debian making
> environmental preferences like preferring more expensive train travel
> over cheaper flights.

Very fair point.  On one hand I concur totally with the "Debian is about free 
software only" argument.  But on the other hand, I don't think it is wise for 
Debian to completely ignore the growing ecological concerns, and the 
environmental impact Debian (and its infrastructure, events, etc) has.

But I understand (and can live with) where you (and others) want to draw this 
line.

> From personal experience I note that trains are a lot less accessible to
> people who are blind (and quite possibly a number of other disabilities
> in some areas of the world) than planes.

I was not aware of this, so thank you for making this concern known to me.

> You can say that you'd make exceptions for disabilities.

What I actually wanted to say was that I'd be willing to make exceptions; but 
didn't say which would be "good" or "bad" exceptions. There are various good 
reasons for exceptions; but you rightfully point out that justifying some of 
these (because of too restrictive conditions) can be prohibitive.  So: less 
rules leads to less exceptions, I guess?

>     Didier> So what I'd would enjoy to see is exchanges along the lines
>     Didier> of:
> 
>     Didier> - BSP Orga: hey DPL; we organize a 3-days/2-nights BSP and
>     Didier> would like to support travel for potential attendees. We
>     Didier> expect about 12 travel requests; what can you do for us?  -
> 
> I'd much rather event organizers come with a rough budget.
> As DPL I certainly don't have time or desire to put together a budget
> for someone.

Fair enough.  But then I wonder what guidelines will be used to grant, amend, 
or deny travel support budgets. Surely not "any" budget is fine (or is it)? I 
tend to think it'd be of great support for the BSP organizers to know in which 
ballpark the travel support budget should fall.

Best regards,
    OdyX

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