Re: Censorship in Debian
On Saturday, January 05, 2019 08:42:57 PM Sean Whitton wrote:
> Hello Russ, Scott,
>
> On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 11:44am -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> writes:
> >> I am concerned about Debian becoming over-politicized (beyond the core
> >> issue of Free Software, which has an inherent political aspect). I like
> >> that the diversity statement isn't anti-anything.
> >
> > Well, I'm in the camp that says that Debian is a political project at its
> > very core, and there's very little about Debian that has ever been *not*
> > political. But I realize this is an ongoing argument over what
> > "political" means. (I think a lot of people have an unreasonably narrow
> > definition.)
>
> I wonder if Scott's notion of Debian becoming over-politicised is the
> idea that more explicit political agreement is being required in order
> to participate?
>
> Something that fascinates me about Free Software is that very different
> political positions generate reasons to support its spread. Economic
> libertarians, socialists and anarchists, for example, all have good --
> but different -- reasons to support Free Software.
>
> For my own part, one huge advantage of participating in Free Software
> projects is the opportunity to come to understand the quite different
> reasons that other people have for upholding the same standards of
> freedom in software.
>
> Scott, would it be right to describe your concern as the worry that
> participation in Debian seems to be coming to require a political
> position that has more in common with other participants than simply the
> property of generating reasons to support the spread of Free Software?
>
> (I'm not expressing a view about whether I take that concern to be
> valid. I'm just trying to see if I've understood where Scott is coming
> from any better.)
I think that's pretty close to it.
Personally, I have strong utilitarian views on why Free Software is a good
thing (proprietary software is a business risk I am no longer willing to
take). I also think it's important from a freedom perspective to enable
individuals to not be trapped by the decisions of large, not always so caring,
entities be they government or corporate.
I'm also a Free Speech absolutist (almost - I think the cure for bad speech is
almost always more speech, not regulation, but only almost).
I also have a lot of sympathy for people who feel they have been marginalized
and it being worth working on making them feel welcome/not marginalized, but I
think it has limits (and maybe this is the core of my concern relative to the
CoC). Not everyone can be accommodated. There's broad agreement that someone
who insists on an unfettered right to be an ass (for most any definition)
isn't going to be made to feel welcome, but there's also a limit to how far
the project can reasonably go in catering to people's concerns without it
getting ridiculous.
To pick a completely different type of example of the same kind of issue:
Military pilots of aircraft with ejection seats are limited both to a minimum
and maximum height. It's not fair that if that's your dream job that you are
excluded because you are too tall or too short, but it just isn't economically
or operationally feasible to develop, test, and maintain a wide variety of
ejection seats to accommodate the full range of the human condition.
All accommodations have practical limits. In my reading of the Diversity
Statement and CoC, I don't see that recognized and I fear how far it will be
taken in the future.
So that was longer than I expected and I think I understand where I'm coming
from better myself. Thanks.
My bottom line is that today is a very divisive time in the world with many
forces trying to drive wedges between groups and force people into one camp or
another and then 'hate' the other tribe. We'll be better off in Debian the
more of that we can ignore. Let's focus on the things we need to focus on to
make Debian great and ignore the rest.
Another example and I'll quit:
As a US voter, I care deeply about the results of the last US presidential
election. If I'm arguing US politics with you and trying to bring you to vote
in the future in what I think is the 'right' way, then your views on the
issues that caused you to vote one way or another are really important. If
we're working on Debian, as long as we can participate constructively in
Debian together, it's irrelevant.
So let's not be more political than we need to be to get the Debian/Free
Software job done.
Scott K
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