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Re: vmdebootstrap sprint report

>>>>> "Norbert" == Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

    >> only. It's scary to think that its intention is to also replace a
    >> tool like bootstrap-vz that has been used for years, is currently
    >> maintained and is pretty stable. Specially when not even
    >> mentioning this to the Debian Cloud Team.

    Norbert> Read up on recent - let's say - slightly surprising and
    Norbert> unconcerted forceful takeover of live-build.

    Norbert> It speaks stories about what has become possible in Debian.

first, I really appreciate all the work that has gone into live-build,
which I've used for years, and which I have the experience to
I' also appreciate the work that has gone into vmdebootstrap and
debootstrap-vz, which I've never personally used.

Speaking as someone who has used Debian images from a lot of different
sources and someone interested in consistency, it would be good if we
did work to get to a point where:

1) All these images are consistent.  I think I want the same things from
an image I install on a VM, an image I install in a private cloud and an
image I install on a public cloud.
I think I want the same thing out of a live image where I've removed
live-boot and live-config.

2) As someone who ends up building cloud images for my business,
building live images, and who has build installers and images for small
derivatives, I'd really appreciate  fewer rather than more tools.  This
is an area where I think it's important to  be consistent and to spend
the extra effort to get tools that work for everyone.

Speaking as an individual member of the TC, I'd like to see us do that
in a way that grows our project and empowers our contributors.  It
really really sucks to spend effort on a project and have your effort
not acknowledged, or taken into account.  For myself at least I find
disagreement, especially when my input was considered, much easier to
take than what feels like the lack of respect that comes from being
ignored or discarded without being involved in the process.
I fully realize that a simpler explanation for those feelings is
sometimes that people didn't know about my efforts.

It sounds like we have some important work to do here to reconcile some
differences and get to a point where we're a project on this issue
rather than a collection of disconnected teams and views.  I think image
creation is important enough where that is very much worth doing.


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