Hi Scott (and Debian at large),I just tried to update to Jessie and couldn't remove systemd because there were already dependencies to it which I could not ignore (I'm using XFCE, thus this is not strictly a Gnome thing):
# apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: aptdaemon* brasero* colord* gnome-disk-utility* gvfs* gvfs-backends* gvfs-daemons* gvfs-fuse* hplip* libpam-systemd* libpwquality-common*libpwquality1* policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome* printer-driver-postscript-hp*
systemd* udisks2* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 17 to remove and 0 not upgraded. After this operation, 30.2 MB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n]Quite a few pieces I may or may not be willing to part with but the printer driver is something I definitely need. If I had to guess, I'd say the previous udev-based script which loaded the printer firmware has been replaced by systemd events of some sort but I didn't really investigate. I also noticed that systemd-logind was running despite the fact that I tried really hard to get all of systemd deactivated.
This is all heading in the wrong direction and I restored my Wheezy root filesystem for the time being.
I'm now evaluating other options to get around systemd (Gentoo, Devuan, etc.). I'm not sure what the result of this is going to be but I really wish that, even this late in the process, the Jessie project would step back from systemd and evaluate other options such as openrc, or stick to sysvinit until the smoke has cleared and alternatives such as uselessd are ready to replace just the init system, not the whole infrastructure.
Thanks, --Christian On 11/28/2014 10:50 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
On Friday, November 28, 2014 10:23:29 PM Christian Mueller wrote:Dear Debian Project, I really didn't want to add fire to the debate about using/not using systemd but recent developments made it difficult to remain impartial. Debian has always been about choice. You (Debian) have maintained distributions based on BSD, Hurd, whatever kernels, at least partially just to make that point: choice. Software such as systemd removes this choice. Once systemd has been incorporated, Debian is going to be an OS based on a Linux kernel using the GNU C library, dbus, Gnome, etc. No BSD. No Hurd (although I don't really know about that particular kernel). Instead, we get lots of non-Unix concepts, introduced by Windows or OS X, such as a focus on local [desktop] sessions (as if anyone would be interested to have a single computer with multiple displays and keyboards directly attached) vs. a simple su in xerm. Consolekit. Policykit. Logs flooded by useless crap vs. thinking about what exactly to log. And now Systemd, journald, ... Is this really, really what you want? If not, please consider alternatives to systemd. Uselessd (http://uselessd.darknedgy.net) comes to mind, in case you want to unify startup scripts without all the gross disadvantages of incorporating all of the systemd project. Please, don't take Debian away from me by making Systemd mandatory! Thanks, --ChristianPersonally, I try and avoid getting involved in the systemd debate too. You can relax. Systemd is not mandatory. Scott K