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Re: [CTTE #746578] libpam-systemd to switch alternate dependency ordering

On Mon, 2014-11-17 at 11:58 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: 
> I think that everyone will agree that we are having a big crisis about
> the role of the TC in Debian.
Is there really a crisis?
It rather seems to me that the TC, especially in its recent composition
(i.e before Colin and Russ announced to resign/left) did their job just
as usual - the only difference seems, that there are now much more
fractions in Debian which simply can't accept that some necessary
decisions needed to be made, especially when these decisions go against
their own political/technical agenda.

When the tech CTTE decided for systemd (which was the right decision) in
the beginning of the year, many people were already unhappy with this,
but I guess things got less out of control as now, since a) the decision
was technically right, b) Shuttleworth basically killed upstart shortly
afterwards and c) people were more or less promised form all fractions,
that diversity would be retained.

But as this issue on libpam-systemd showed, these promises were soon to
be forgotten, or at least alternatives are pushed out with the argument
that supporting them wouldn't work, requires much effort, etc..

Therefore we saw Ian's GR or TC cases like this... and even though there
is a lot of politics involved and not just technical issues, it's
important that the TC made these decisions now, since in 2-3 years it
would be too late to retain diversity.

So I don't really think the TC has a crisis - the constitution and
especially how the TC works seemed to have been fine to most people for
many years; it's only now when they make decisions disliked by some
fractions that they're heavily attacked,... Steve's wording of
"demonization" seems to fit quite well.

Also, Don seems to be absolutely right, when hey says that consensus
wasn't in sight at all. wontfix also seems like "we're not willing to
change this".


btw: I should probably note, that I'd have preferred that old
installations automatically switch to systemd unless a users opts-out
during upgrade. That would seem the natural way - systemd is going to be
the default, so legacy installations should get it as well... and
someone who really insists on sysvinit is surely capable of keeping it.


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