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Re: Debian services and Debian infrastructure

This one time, at band camp, Lucas Nussbaum said:
> On 21/01/14 at 15:07 +0000, Stephen Gran wrote:
> > I think there's quite a range of options between "DSA can't host
> > everything under the sun" and "I'll go set up a private parallel
> > development environment out of project funds without any further
> > discussion".
> I don't know who you are quoting here, but I never said that "I would go
> set up a private parallel development environment out of project funds".

I think I might not have said that clearly enough or something, since I
did not accuse you of doing that.

We've very nearly finished cleaning up an awful lot of misunderstanding
and lost good will from various donors because many Joe DDs asked for
donations in the name of the project and then used it for a personal
development platform without coordinating anything with us.  I'd rather
not start that up again.

I am nervous that your plans to start handing out VMs with no DSA
involvement means that in a few years, we'll have a few dozen owned VMs
that no one ever bothered to clean up costing us good will with these
hosters.  I assume you have plans to prevent that, but as you didn't
talk to us I can't know them yet.  I also know from experience that we
will be the people contacted in the event of trouble, and if we have no
idea what is going on in these environments, it wastes time and effort.

> What I'm doing currently is what I wrote in the mail you replied to:
> > > However, it sounded pointless to argue on that if there is no concrete
> > > offer to host Debian's services being developed outside of Debian
> > > infrastructure.  So, since that discussion, I've been talking to a few
> > > hosting providers, and two of them have offered to support Debian with
> > > free resources (on their clouds) for Debian development. Since I think
> > > that avoiding vendor lock-in is a must, I'd like to make sure that we
> > > can get a third one on board before working out further details.
> That is, *explore the possiblity* to get *free* resources for Debian
> development.

Great.  I'm happy you've been successful soliciting donations.  I'm less
happy about the decision to run with it instead of talking about it.

> If we can avoid spending DSA's time on a private OpenStack Cloud by
> getting free resources, and solve the problem of providing a
> development infrastructure that way, I really think that this is the
> way to go.

That is something that might have been interesting to discuss, if only
we had had a discussion.

> > I have some operational questions about this cloud setup, since it seems
> > you've delegated running Debian owned machines to us and then gone and
> > got some that you don't want us to run.  I'm not sure what to do with
> > that disjuncture.
> I don't know what you are talking about. Where did I "got some Debian
> owned machines that I don't want DSA to run?"

Are these resources being given to Debian or to lucas?  I thought you
meant you were getting this stuff for Debian?  If they're given to
Debian, are they not Debian machines?  Not that I'm saying we have to
run them, but I'm saying that you seem to have made the decision about
how this is going without talking to the team that you delegated to do
exactly this job.

|   ,''`.                                            Stephen Gran |
|  : :' :                                        sgran@debian.org |
|  `. `'                        Debian user, admin, and developer |
|    `-                                     http://www.debian.org |

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