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Re: Debian services and Debian infrastructure


On 21/01/14 at 13:11 +0000, Stephen Gran wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Lucas Nussbaum said:
> [...] single mail shot with no follow up.
> Well, it's been a bit over 2 weeks, and you haven't posted a follow up.
> This doesn't feel like a conversation to me.  I understand you're busy,
> but it feels very much like you're not actually interested in engaging.
> I find that slightly demoralizing.

I'm not sure of what you would like me to follow up on? I've just
re-checked, and emails from you in that thread did not include a single

Generally, I agree with everything that has been said in that thread
(minor snarky comments from Joerg on m68k and 'real unrealistic
requirements', but I didn't think it was worth replying to them).

For example, I fully agree that we should try hard to host 'important'
services on Debian hardware.  Also, I don't think that anybody disagrees
that we have a problem with 'speculative' services (as you put it, or
'services development' as I put it). DSA cannot and should not provide
hosting for all Debian-related services being developed, as you wrote
> I don't think jumping straight to a solution that puts all of the
> responsibility for every idea for a service in Debian on DSA shoulders is
> either the only way to go or even a good way to go.  There are plenty
> of bad ideas that should be allowed to wither on the vine, and there
> are always going to be services that have been designed in such a way as
> to be difficult to integrate into DSA-managed infrastructure.  We are,
> after all, a reasonably small team of volunteers.  Pretending that we
> can support an infinite number of services or an infinite variety of
> designs is just going to end in disappointment for someone.

Now, of course, I'm very disappointed that nobody from DSA is interested
in acting as a gateway between service developers and hosting solutions
outside of Debian infrastructure that would be suitable for services in
development and experimental/maturing services. In my eyes, that would
have been a win-win situation, by putting DSA in the perfect position to be
aware of emerging services, and to interact early with service maintainers.
But, well, I cannot force anyone to do work that they don't want to do.

However, it sounded pointless to argue on that if there is no concrete
offer to host Debian's services being developed outside of Debian
infrastructure.  So, since that discussion, I've been talking to a few
hosting providers, and two of them have offered to support Debian with
free resources (on their clouds) for Debian development. Since I think
that avoiding vendor lock-in is a must, I'd like to make sure that we
can get a third one on board before working out further details. That
will include deciding how allocation of such resources happen, and where
discussion about this should happen. My first choice would be to use
debian-services-admin@ for that, but of course that will be your decision
as I don't want to 'pollute' the list with traffic you are not interested
- Lucas

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