Re: Expulsion process: Sven Luther - Decision
On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 10:20:42AM -0700, Richard Hecker wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 07:07 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I would have gladly accepted any decision, provided it was a fair one, but
> > this one-sidedness is what caused all of this.
> One big problem here is the way you define "fair" in this context.
> There are many other DDs unwilling to accept your definition. Another
> good example is the way you talk about others who "hate" you.
Do you deny that rejection is an act of hate ? And do you deny that the
expulsion is an act of rejection, because the project was unable to solve the
For me, in a situation like this, fair does mean a solution which does not do
injustice to any of the parties. Do you deny that this decision, which
happened because the project is unable to solve his social disputes, can
hardly be called fair, since it didn't involve both parties of the this
> You are free to selectively use any definitions you see fit. But the
> fact that many others reject your choice should cause one to pause for
The problem, is that those others cannot but reject this definition, or they
would see themselves as agreeing to a decision which is ugly and hateful. They
are not honest enough with themselves to see the reality, so instead of
solving this issue, they all go after the scapegoat.
> thought. By continuously harping on issues that rely on your specific
> definitions, you isolate yourself from those who might be in a position
Please give me an alternate definition where what was done to me since over a
year now, can be called fair ? I am very curious about it.
> to help you. After you alienate your fellow DDs, you feign surprise
> that no one is there to help you. This process has been repeated over
> and over again. Many have tried to help you and offer advice. When you
> ignore their advice, is it any wonder you find yourself in this
The advice was be silent and accept the iniquity. Sorry, but i could not do
this, and i challenge anyone who condemn me to think about it, and ask himself
how he would have acted in my place.
> You are STILL a DD with an opportunity to positively contribute to the
I am ashamed and humiliated in public, punished for a deed that half those
calling for my expulsion do daily. Can you explain to me how anyone could ever
imagine that this would ever help.
This is like a schoal yard, where a group of bullies constantly mollest the
same guy, because they dislike him, he is different, or whatever. And on top
of that, the teacher always end up punishing the the lone guy, because he
revolts against the bullies.
Would you accept that kind of situation for your children ? Why then does this
seem acceptable in debian ?
> project. Instead of explaining that you are the one who is right and
> all of us are wrong, try working on something where consensus exists.
There is nothing left, everything i tried, everything, i was constantly bashed
by frans and the d-i team, with the blessing of the DPL and the debian
> When you explain what makes my views wrong, it also causes me to wonder
> if I was wrong to have any concern for your welfare.
Easy, you either accept my word, or i will reject it, because i am afraid that
i may be wrong, right ? How is this different to what is reproached to me ?