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Re: Expulsion process: Sven Luther - Decision

On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 11:50:04AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Sven Luther wrote:
> >Taking this to -project, since i am no more a DD.
> I'm very unsure whether this was a reasonable move but I will at least
> remove quotings from private.  I also must have missed the point in
> some mails because I have not seen any sign that you were expulsed nor
> that you resigned.

I am suspended for a year, i am humiliated, and there was not a single critic
of the behaviour of the expulsers, and what they did to me, it is not likely i
will be interested in coming back after a year, so this could just as well be
a right-out-expulsion, and the DAMs just didn't want to have it on their

This is just the same bullshit as what Anthony Towns as DPL pulled last year,
putting all the condemnation on me, and not trying to be fair about what was

They hide between the procedure, but they have broken the procedure already,
have done their deliberation in hidding, have not respected the timeliness of
it, have hidden the dates of the expulsion request because they knew they had
shady evidence, have not acted in a timely fashion, etc.

I particularly question the honour of James Troup, with whom i actually spoke
at FOSDEM, and who didn't even mention this to me. I question the legitimacy
of this procedure, and the decency of all those who where at FOSDEM, where i
was also, and chose not to do a in-life meeting there to solve the problem.

I particularly question the involvement of all those who chose to hate me for
the mail i wrote, but don't recognize that it was not me who has constantly
come back with this mess since novembre or so, first with the hallucinating
result of Fabio's mediation, then by the even more hallucinating expulsion
request, and now a third time with this expulsion procedure result, which
brings nothing, except the vindication of those who felt slighted by me, and
where unable to find the peaceful solution out of this, and could not live
without full victory, and bringing their adversary to the dust.

I question what debian has become, a tentacular monster of hate and
unfeelingness, embodied by its current ruling body, where contributors are
only worthy if their are meak and humble and actually contribute, and it is ok
for them to be thrown out if they have a bad time.

I question the expulsion procedure, which should have taken the oportunity
that many of the protagonists in this affair where in-live present at FOSDEM,
and have at least tried to resolve this issue in a human why.

So, to conclude, i reject any right of a few self-selected individuals to
actually decide on issues like this, for which they are not fit, and will
continue to consider myself as a member of debian until a proper
constitutionally approved vote has actually ejected me in a strong enough
majority, even though i am currently refused the rightful use of debian

> >So, after Andrew Suffield, after Jonathan/Ted Walter, it is my turn,
> Mentioning yourself in this row is like comparing apples and pears
> (hope that this figure works also in English) and I'm really sad that
> you come up with this.

Well, it may be arguable that Jonathan/Ted should be expulsed, but the way it
was done was a joke, and not dign of debian. 

> >because i
> >was not pliable enough to the power-hungryness of a few who believe 
> >themselves
> >debian overlords, and with this current precedent, i only question who is
> >next.
> Well, if you think this would be the reason I'm sitting probably next to
> the expulsion chair and I know many DDs who will sit in a row with myself.
> I doubt that power-hungryness is the reason for the problems you faced.

Well, you where not opposed to the likes of Frans, Manoj and Anthony, ...

> >Seriously, i had anyway had intentions of going inactive for some time, so 
> >i
> >question, was this really necessary?
> I wonder if sending mails like this to debian-project is your idea of
> going inactive.

What does it matter anymore, i have been judged and thrown out of the way,
there is no honour left in debian for me, all the 8 years i gave to debian are
worth nothing, and i bitterly regret even having heard of debian.

> >Was this what was best for debian, well,
> >i seriously doubt so, but i am out of the game, and it is for others to see
> >what happens in this, but this is the most *SHAMEFUL* and *DANGEROUS* 
> >decision
> >which i ever saw taken in debian.
> >From your personal point of view this is understandable but please
> accept if others think differently - especially readers of debian-project
> who are confronted with a mail that can only sound "mysterious" and
> leaves them no chance to find a reasonable opinion.

They can ask. But seriously, there is no need to go hunting for all the
"evidence" or whatever, the fact that the expulsion was even considered is
shameful enough, and is a bad precedent to set for debian, and culminate the
one year of hate and in-fighting brewed by our current DPL, and the total
disrespect of the ruling body of debian for the developpers, which can be
visible in opinions like those who think that debian should not be democratic,
and that low-involvement DDs are sub-DDs.

What was done here, independently of my fault or not, is *EVIL* *SHAMEFUL and
*DANGEROUS* to the future of debian.

> Sven, while continuing beeing your fiend, please take my advise and calm
> down and do not try to solve your trouble using different mailing lists.

Well, i don't use a different mailing list, i simply bring this on a forum
where i am not banned, and can participate, since debian likes to handle this
kind of problems in secret hiding holes, untrue the transparency and open-ness
which we all agreed to in the social contract.

And as to calm down, i have been the constant victim of this bullshit since
over a year now, and each time i tried to change my own behaviour, even if the
other parties had not a single regret, nor any intention of changing, there
was another stronger provocation against me.

yes, i am *ANGRY* and *BITTER*, but rightfully so.


Sven Luther

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